Guard Soldiers Back Off From Armed Men Out Of Mexico

January 6th, 2007  
Team Infidel

Topic: Guard Soldiers Back Off From Armed Men Out Of Mexico

Arizona Republic (Phoenix)
January 6, 2007
Pg. 1

By Matthew Benson, The Arizona Republic
A Border Patrol official says National Guard troops acted appropriately this week when they abandoned their post near the border southwest of Tucson as four gunmen approached from Mexico.
It is the nearest that Guard members have come to an armed conflict on the border since spring when President Bush pledged up to 6,000 soldiers to help slow illegal immigration along the nation's 1,950-mile southern border.
No shots were fired in the incident, and no one was injured. Border Patrol spokesman Mario Martinez stressed that "there was no attack."
But he added, "It's a serious situation. We're not trying to say it wasn't a serious situation. We've never had an incident where there were gunmen this close to a post."
It also raises questions in the eyes of critics who say the border mission has placed Guard troops in an awkward position. Guardsmen are strictly in a backup role along the border. That means performing administrative functions, building roads and fences, even conducting surveillance in some cases, such as with the team near Tucson.
But they're never to confront or attempt to apprehend border crossers.
"What are we paying our National Guard to do (along the border)? That is the question," said Don Goldwater, who led a failed campaign for governor last year on his promise to crack down on illegal immigration.
"We're putting the National Guard down in harm's way along the border with no intention to allow them to protect themselves."
Goldwater is the nephew of the late Arizona Sen. Barry Goldwater, a former presidential candidate.
The armed confrontation took place about 11 p.m. Wednesday near Sasabe about a quarter-mile north of the border. A team of four or five Guard members, armed with M-16s, were watching for border crossers at an observation post when they spotted four men carrying what appeared to be rifles, Martinez said.
As the men came closer, the soldiers left their post and called for the Border Patrol.
"In order to not be detected, they moved to a safer location," Martinez said. "That's exactly what we want them to do.
"They're armed for their protection. Once they are afraid for their lives, they can defend themselves.
"That was not the case."
Border Patrol agents responded within minutes and scoured the area by helicopter and on the ground, but the gunmen could not be located. Their tracks showed that they had arrived near the observation post after crossing into the United States from Mexico.
Armed individuals crossing remote areas of the border typically are smuggling drugs, Martinez said, though it is unknown who the gunmen were in this incident. It's also uncertain whether the men were scouting the observation post, testing National Guard response or merely stumbled upon the soldiers.
Martinez wouldn't say whether troops have since returned to the observation post, but he noted that "we're still monitoring the area; we'll probably be monitoring the area closely for a while."
Gov. Janet Napolitano's staff was briefed about the incident by the Arizona National Guard, but it deferred comment to the U.S. Department of Homeland Security. A spokesman from that office did not respond to a phone message left by The Arizona Republic.
Barrett Marson, spokesman for state House Speaker Jim Weiers, said "legislative leaders have not been briefed on the situation but would like some information."
State Sen. Chuck Gray, a Republican and retired Mesa police officer, was surprised that Guard members would run in the face of an armed threat, unless they were seeking protective cover.
"I can tell you, as a police officer of 10 years, there was never a policy to flee," he said. "If they're running for cover, that's different than running away."
Illegal immigration moved to the forefront of American politics in the past few years. Polls consistently have said it is one of the top issues in the minds of Arizonans, and Napolitano and New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson declared border emergencies for their respective states in August 2005.
Nearly one year ago to the day, Napolitano used her State of the State address to call for the federal government to pay for the deployment of the National Guard to the border. In the spring, she got her wish with Bush's announcement of Operation Jump Start, a plan to use thousands of Guard members to tighten the border until new Border Patrol agents could be hired and trained.
Roughly 5,700 Guard members are stationed along the border, more than a quarter of whom are in Arizona. It is hoped that they can be pulled back by 2008.
Initial reports indicate the program has reduced illegal crossings. Apprehensions were down 11.4 percent in Arizona from 2005 to 2006, and down 8.5 percent for the four border states.
January 8th, 2007  
Armed men crossing the border into the United States, and all the National Guard is allowed to do is run away. That makes the U.S. really secure. Think somebody needs to tell Washington the definition of the phrase "National Guard" before the smugglers start smuggling terrorists into the U.S. instead of drugs.
January 8th, 2007  
Typical horse assignment they give to troops deployed for nothing more than politics. Very typical of Clinton Era deployments. Mark my words it will get people killed, our people.
January 8th, 2007  
Clinton had U.S. Marines armed on the Border, and shooting people.
Bush has National Guard on the Border, not shooting people and running away.

I fail to see the comparison.
January 8th, 2007  
Clinton ROE in Somalia and Bosnia were what I was specifically referring to. I could also compare it to the ROEs of the Marines in Beirut in the 80's. This wasnt a political dig at any party but in fact highlighting the idiocy of using combat troops but then hog tying their use of force. Put reservist police officers on the border if thats what you want, not military troops.
January 8th, 2007  
Clinton took a lot of heat for the U.S. Marines on the Border, but did it anyway.
I believe the trouble is Bush is in too deep with the Mexican Government.
January 8th, 2007  
Typical horse assignment they give to troops deployed for nothing more than politics. Very typical of Clinton Era deployments. Mark my words it will get people killed, our people.
Bulldogg, I couldn't agree with you more. Although in Bosnia, when armed people were observed in the Zone of Separation, at least soldiers were allowed to go out there and confiscate their weapons. And sadly, that doesn't seem to be the case with our own border. It makes alot of sense to spend so much money to secure air and seaports, and then allow armed people to just walk in unopposed. It's scary to think how many terrorists might have already used this route. After all, the coyotes probably don't care who they smuggle as long as they get paid. I hope this doesn't sound racist, it's not meant to be, but I think part of the reason for the half-a***** border policies is that political parties are afraid of upsetting people of Hispanic descent, and therefore losing their votes.
January 9th, 2007  
Originally Posted by bulldogg
Put reservist police officers on the border if thats what you want, not military troops.
Can't, they're aren't any Reserve Police Officers on a Federal Level. This is a damn problem. What we need is a MILITIA. Our National Guard is not the State Militia, and the current state defense forces are a joke.

If our own Customs and Border Patrol plus the National guard is not fighting the border war then maybe the citizens should.

The ROE must be changed, allow our National Guardmens and Law Enforcement Agencies must be allowed to defend themselves and this Nation. I don't give a damn about Mexico. If Mexicans come across our borders armed we should prosecute them just as they would prosecute us. Let our troops protect themselves. If said scumbags goes at me with a firearm while I'm at duty I have the legal right to defend myself and others. Allow our CBP Agents and NG troops defend themselves also. I think a couple of Striker Brigades would do nice on the Border. Hell, the Strikers would be better on the border then the Battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan.

Last time I checked it's a hell of alot harder or an illegal to live in Mexico then the USA. I'm tired of playing nice. If the bastards want to cross into my backyard armed. Well I got bad news for them. I don't play nice. I play to win.

(Have nothing against Mexicans or legal immigrants but sh!t like this pisses me off! It's the Frakking Truth, Mexico is more anti-illegal immigration than the current USA is. I'm damn tired of being PC.)
January 9th, 2007  
Luis, you should run for office. Hell I'll move the family to your neighborhood just to help with the campaign.
January 9th, 2007  
Been thinking of doing that but first I need to get a little longer in the tooth.

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