behemoth79
Active member
with all the rumors of criticizing the Koran and of torturing POWs, should it be closed down? today's episode of the o"reilly factor had a good debate on this issue. i cant find a link to it though. 
guantanamo
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
Well just for fun, I think there is a need for such places to house terrorists prior to them being taken out and shot and as long as the right agencies have access to the place to ensure everything is as it should be then keep it running, my biggest argument against the place is it seems to be a dumping ground more than a prison ie people dropped there with nothing more than suspicion as evidence and no way of clearing themselves.
Whispering Death
Active member
/agrees with MontyB
The Guantanamo detainees have it way too easy. In WW2 the allies executed people at dawn for far less crimes than these terrorists, such as spys, sabateurs, and radio propogandists. Geneva convention should only aply to those who abide by the geneva convention. If you try to kill civilians then you should be tortured and executed. How do you think our boys delt with the Waffen SS!?!
The Guantanamo detainees have it way too easy. In WW2 the allies executed people at dawn for far less crimes than these terrorists, such as spys, sabateurs, and radio propogandists. Geneva convention should only aply to those who abide by the geneva convention. If you try to kill civilians then you should be tortured and executed. How do you think our boys delt with the Waffen SS!?!
Missileer
Active member
Whispering Death said:
Well, the Russians dealt with them with a short rope and a long drop to the ground. I can't say how our forces treated them when "out of sight". I heard a WWII Vet say that he heard a German machine gunner griping because he gave up when his position was overrun and was bayonetted anyway. Surely he didn't expect kind treatment after killing so many soldiers. He should have been thankful that he survived to *****.
Missileer
Active member
staurofilakes said:
To start, I don't have a lot of respect for anyone who beats, rapes, and sodomizes women and girls for no reason. Also the belief by some that they were created to destroy any and everyone who doesn't believe the way they do factors pretty heavily into what they believe Human rights mean. Ergo, I don't expect that type of person will think much of the Geneva Convention or any other rules of warfare. I do believe prisoners should not be tortured but that is about the only respect I believe they should be given.
Corocotta
Active member
Missileer said:
I do not have any respect for that kind of people also, but people in Guantanamo are not there for raping, beating or sodomizing, they are there because they are suspects of terrorism.
What do you think that is going on in Guantanamo? There are many ways of torture...
Actually, I'm not even going to bring up torture, my problem was lack of due process from the outset. I will leave it to the words placed in Sir Thomas More's mouth by Robert Bolt (though, who knows, it might be an authentic quotation) regarding applying laws to those who don't deserve protection of the law.
"Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake! "
FRO
"Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake! "
FRO
Depends on who you talk to Monty, I have friends that would gladly flush the koran, and firends that think it should be treated as a religious book.
My self I'm not the best christian. I believe in the God almighty, but I can always get another Bible if mine is destroyed, I can't get another friend like the one they killed.
But then thats just me.
Personally if it was up to me we wouldn't be in Iraq in the first place until Afganistan was finished, and Osama Bin Laden was found and delt with.
I'm not saying I'm against eh Iraq war, I FULLY support the Troops. I was just brought up to finish one thing before I started another.
My self I'm not the best christian. I believe in the God almighty, but I can always get another Bible if mine is destroyed, I can't get another friend like the one they killed.
But then thats just me.
Personally if it was up to me we wouldn't be in Iraq in the first place until Afganistan was finished, and Osama Bin Laden was found and delt with.
I'm not saying I'm against eh Iraq war, I FULLY support the Troops. I was just brought up to finish one thing before I started another.
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
wolfen said:
Oddly enough I dont disagree with anything you have said, my point is however that people naturally push the bounderies (this occurs in all walks of life) to see how far they can go, if you let one minor issue go then that becomes the new boundry and they start pushing the next so while this issue is maybe 10 steps away from being a barbaric act if you let it slide you are only 9 steps away.
Chocobo_Blitzer
Active member
Why would you close it down? How would that help? Wouldn't they just be moved to another location?
wolfen said:
Depends on the person, some people would defenetly think that what they do to the koran is worse then to be dragged feet first through the streets and haning him out to die.
The fact is the innocent people has had these types of toruture put to them, innocent people! And that is just something that mustn't happen, torture of any kind is strikty a no no.
behemoth79
Active member
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-gitmo6jun06,1,7775046.story?ctrack=1&cset=true
Senator Biden wants Guantanamo shut down
Senator Biden wants Guantanamo shut down
Uncle_Sam
Active member
That's a bunch of bull.... I think there's never enough punishment for the terrorists....
Oh and by the way, please read this...
The Truth About Guantanamo Bay
By Michelle Malkin
June 1, 2005
The mainstream media and international human rights organizations have relentlessly portrayed the Guantanamo Bay detention facility as a depraved torture chamber operated by sadistic American military officials defiling Islam at every turn. It's the "gulag of our time," wails Amnesty International. It's the "anti-Statue of Liberty," bemoans New York Times columnist Tom Friedman.
Have there been abuses? Yes. But here is the rest of the story -- the story that the Islamists and their sympathizers don't want you to hear.
According to recently released FBI documents, which are inaccurately heralded by civil liberties activists and military-bashers as irrefutable evidence of widespread "atrocities" at Gitmo:
A significant number of detainees' complaints were either exaggerated or fabricated (no surprise given al Qaeda's explicit instructions to trainees to lie). One detainee who claimed to have been "beaten, spit upon and treated worse than a dog" could not provide a single detail pertaining to mistreatment by U.S. military personnel. Another detainee claimed that guards were physically abusive, but admitted he hadn't seen it.
Another detainee disputed one of the now-globally infamous claims that American guards had mistreated the Koran. The detainee said that riots resulted from claims that a guard dropped the Koran. In actuality, the detainee said, a detainee dropped the Koran then blamed a guard. Other detainees who complained about abuse of the Koran admitted they had never personally witnessed any such abuse, but one said he had heard that non-Muslim soldiers touched the Koran when searching it for contraband.
In one case, Gitmo interrogators apologized to a detainee for interviewing him prior to the end of Ramadan.
Several detainees indicated they had not experienced any mistreatment. Others complained about lack of privacy, lack of bed sheets, being unwillingly photographed, the guards' use of profanity, and bad food.
If this is unacceptable, "gulag"-style "torture," then every inmate in America is a victim of human rights violations. (Oh, never mind, there are civil liberties chicken littles who actually believe that.)
Erik Saar, who served as an army sergeant at Gitmo for six months and co-authored a negative, tell-all book about his experience titled "Inside the Wire," inadvertently provides us more firsthand details showing just how restrained, and sensitive to Islam -- to a fault, I believe -- the officials at the detention facility have been.
Each detainee's cell has a sink installed low to the ground, "to make it easier for the detainees to wash their feet" before Muslim prayer, Saar reports. Detainees get "two hot halal, or religiously correct, meals" a day in addition to an MRE (meal ready to eat). Loudspeakers broadcast the Muslims' call to prayer five times a day.
Every detainee gets a prayer mat, cap and Koran. Every cell has a stenciled arrow pointing toward Mecca. Moreover, Gitmo's library -- yes, library -- is stocked with Jihadi books. "I was surprised that we'd be making that concession to the religious zealotry of the terrorists," Saar admits. "t seemed to me that the camp command was helping to facilitate the terrorists' religious devotion." Saar notes that one FBI special agent involved in interrogations even grew a beard like the detainees "as a sort of show of respect for their faith."
Unreality-based liberals would have us believe that America is systematically torturing innocent Muslims out of spite at Guantanamo Bay. Meanwhile, our own MPs have endured little-publicized abuse at the hands of manipulative, hate-mongering enemy combatants. Detainees have spit on and hurled water, urine and feces on the MPs. Causing disturbances is a source of entertainment for detainees who, as Gen. Richard Myers points out, "would turn right around and try to slit our throats, slit our children's throats" if released.
The same unreality-based liberals whine about the Bush administration's failure to gather intelligence and prevent terrorism. Yet, these hysterical critics have no viable alternative to detention and interrogation -- and there is no doubt they would be the first to lambaste the White House and Pentagon if a released detainee went on to commit an act of mass terrorism on American soil.
Guantanamo Bay will not be the death of this country. The unseriousness and hypocrisy of the terrorist-abetting Left is a far greater threat.
------------
Michelle Malkin is author of "Invasion: How America Still Welcomes Terrorists, Criminals, and Other Foreign Menaces to Our Shores" (Regnery). Michelle Malkin's e-mail address is malkin@comcast.net.
COPYRIGHT 2005 CREATORS SYNDICATE, INC.
Oh and by the way, please read this...
The Truth About Guantanamo Bay
By Michelle Malkin
June 1, 2005
The mainstream media and international human rights organizations have relentlessly portrayed the Guantanamo Bay detention facility as a depraved torture chamber operated by sadistic American military officials defiling Islam at every turn. It's the "gulag of our time," wails Amnesty International. It's the "anti-Statue of Liberty," bemoans New York Times columnist Tom Friedman.
Have there been abuses? Yes. But here is the rest of the story -- the story that the Islamists and their sympathizers don't want you to hear.
According to recently released FBI documents, which are inaccurately heralded by civil liberties activists and military-bashers as irrefutable evidence of widespread "atrocities" at Gitmo:
A significant number of detainees' complaints were either exaggerated or fabricated (no surprise given al Qaeda's explicit instructions to trainees to lie). One detainee who claimed to have been "beaten, spit upon and treated worse than a dog" could not provide a single detail pertaining to mistreatment by U.S. military personnel. Another detainee claimed that guards were physically abusive, but admitted he hadn't seen it.
Another detainee disputed one of the now-globally infamous claims that American guards had mistreated the Koran. The detainee said that riots resulted from claims that a guard dropped the Koran. In actuality, the detainee said, a detainee dropped the Koran then blamed a guard. Other detainees who complained about abuse of the Koran admitted they had never personally witnessed any such abuse, but one said he had heard that non-Muslim soldiers touched the Koran when searching it for contraband.
In one case, Gitmo interrogators apologized to a detainee for interviewing him prior to the end of Ramadan.
Several detainees indicated they had not experienced any mistreatment. Others complained about lack of privacy, lack of bed sheets, being unwillingly photographed, the guards' use of profanity, and bad food.
If this is unacceptable, "gulag"-style "torture," then every inmate in America is a victim of human rights violations. (Oh, never mind, there are civil liberties chicken littles who actually believe that.)
Erik Saar, who served as an army sergeant at Gitmo for six months and co-authored a negative, tell-all book about his experience titled "Inside the Wire," inadvertently provides us more firsthand details showing just how restrained, and sensitive to Islam -- to a fault, I believe -- the officials at the detention facility have been.
Each detainee's cell has a sink installed low to the ground, "to make it easier for the detainees to wash their feet" before Muslim prayer, Saar reports. Detainees get "two hot halal, or religiously correct, meals" a day in addition to an MRE (meal ready to eat). Loudspeakers broadcast the Muslims' call to prayer five times a day.
Every detainee gets a prayer mat, cap and Koran. Every cell has a stenciled arrow pointing toward Mecca. Moreover, Gitmo's library -- yes, library -- is stocked with Jihadi books. "I was surprised that we'd be making that concession to the religious zealotry of the terrorists," Saar admits. "t seemed to me that the camp command was helping to facilitate the terrorists' religious devotion." Saar notes that one FBI special agent involved in interrogations even grew a beard like the detainees "as a sort of show of respect for their faith."
Unreality-based liberals would have us believe that America is systematically torturing innocent Muslims out of spite at Guantanamo Bay. Meanwhile, our own MPs have endured little-publicized abuse at the hands of manipulative, hate-mongering enemy combatants. Detainees have spit on and hurled water, urine and feces on the MPs. Causing disturbances is a source of entertainment for detainees who, as Gen. Richard Myers points out, "would turn right around and try to slit our throats, slit our children's throats" if released.
The same unreality-based liberals whine about the Bush administration's failure to gather intelligence and prevent terrorism. Yet, these hysterical critics have no viable alternative to detention and interrogation -- and there is no doubt they would be the first to lambaste the White House and Pentagon if a released detainee went on to commit an act of mass terrorism on American soil.
Guantanamo Bay will not be the death of this country. The unseriousness and hypocrisy of the terrorist-abetting Left is a far greater threat.
------------
Michelle Malkin is author of "Invasion: How America Still Welcomes Terrorists, Criminals, and Other Foreign Menaces to Our Shores" (Regnery). Michelle Malkin's e-mail address is malkin@comcast.net.
COPYRIGHT 2005 CREATORS SYNDICATE, INC.