Ground Zero Mosque developer.... - Page 2




 
--
Boots
 
November 25th, 2010  
Rob Henderson
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chukpike
The problem with using redevelopment funds is that they will be used to build a Mosque, A religious facility. If you bother to read the article about YMCA funding you will find the government grant was for a Health education program.
The "Groud Zero Mosque" is not JUST a mosque. Anyone who is half-way decently informed on the issue knows this. Clearly you have been judging without the full picture.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Chukpike
Might consider Rob's source very misleading?

The YMCA was supplying help for a general health program open to everyone. They did not receive funds to build YMCA centers.

Redevelopment funds vs Educational Partnership?

Like comparing apples and oranges?

Not exactly the same thing.

Redevelopment money is used for buildings. In this case building a Mosque, even if it is inside a "Muslim Cultural Center".

So the question about why no ACLU is valid.
The YMCA provides gyms to the public, that could be considered helping to "lead the nation in reversing the current health epidemic with obesity and chronic disease......"

Chukpike, you should know better than anyone that the semantics of the English language are FREQUENTLY used to deceive and misinform. Just because the Y says that's what the money is going towards doesn't mean it has to go towards that in particular. The entire YMCA corporation is "leading the nation in reversing the current helath epidemic with disease" just by providing exercise facilities to communities.

Once again, just for complete clarification, the Muslim Community Center holds a mosque. NOT a mosque holding a Muslim community center. Clear?
November 26th, 2010  
Chukpike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Henderson
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chukpike
The problem with using redevelopment funds is that they will be used to build a Mosque, A religious facility. If you bother to read the article about YMCA funding you will find the government grant was for a Health education program.

From Rob's source:

"Article Excerpt
WASHINGTON, Sept. 9 /PRNewswire/ -- The YMCA of the USA, the national resource office for the country's 2,575 YMCAs, received a total of $4 million in grant money from the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) Steps to a HealthierUS program and HHS's Education Appropriations Subcommittee to help lead the nation in reversing the current health epidemic with obesity and chronic disease......"

Might consider Rob's source very misleading?

The YMCA was supplying help for a general health program open to everyone. They did not receive funds to build YMCA centers.

Redevelopment funds vs Educational Partnership?

Like comparing apples and oranges?

Not exactly the same thing.

Redevelopment money is used for buildings. In this case building a Mosque, even if it is inside a "Muslim Cultural Center".

So the question about why no ACLU is valid.
The "Groud Zero Mosque" is not JUST a mosque. Anyone who is half-way decently informed on the issue knows this. Clearly you have been judging without the full picture.



The YMCA provides gyms to the public, that could be considered helping to "lead the nation in reversing the current health epidemic with obesity and chronic disease......"

Chukpike, you should know better than anyone that the semantics of the English language are FREQUENTLY used to deceive and misinform. Just because the Y says that's what the money is going towards doesn't mean it has to go towards that in particular. The entire YMCA corporation is "leading the nation in reversing the current helath epidemic with disease" just by providing exercise facilities to communities.

Once again, just for complete clarification, the Muslim Community Center holds a mosque. NOT a mosque holding a Muslim community center. Clear?
"Just because the Y says that's what the money is going towards doesn't mean it has to go towards that in particular." quote Rob Henderson
Actually Rob, yes it does mean the money has to go toward what the Grant was intended. Government grants are audited and reports are filed about the effectiveness of the grant.(Lots of government paperwork)

At least we agree on this:
" In this case building a Mosque, even if it is inside a "Muslim Cultural Center"." quote Chukpike
"Once again, just for complete clarification, the Muslim Community Center holds a mosque. NOT a mosque holding a Muslim community center. Clear?" quote Rob Henderson

Yes Rob, that is what I said.

So what is your point?
The developer does intend to use government money to build a Mosque inside a Muslim Community Center. Rob, no matter how you try and gloss it over, government funds would be used to build a Mosque.

Your trying to mislead people about the YMCA has no bearing on the construction of a Mosque in this topic.
November 26th, 2010  
Rob Henderson
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chukpike
"Just because the Y says that's what the money is going towards doesn't mean it has to go towards that in particular." quote Rob Henderson
Actually Rob, yes it does mean the money has to go toward what the Grant was intended. Government grants are audited and reports are filed about the effectiveness of the grant.(Lots of government paperwork)
And providing exercise facilities would be an effective use of a grant to help lead the nation in fighting the epidemic of obesity in the US. Would it not? So building YMCAs (which could also include any sort of Christian worship center), would fall under an effective use of the grant. You cannot deny that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chukpike
At least we agree on this:
" In this case building a Mosque, even if it is inside a "Muslim Cultural Center"." quote Chukpike
"Once again, just for complete clarification, the Muslim Community Center holds a mosque. NOT a mosque holding a Muslim community center. Clear?" quote Rob Henderson

Yes Rob, that is what I said.

So what is your point?
The developer does intend to use government money to build a Mosque inside a Muslim Community Center. Rob, no matter how you try and gloss it over, government funds would be used to build a Mosque.

Your trying to mislead people about the YMCA has no bearing on the construction of a Mosque in this topic.
The point is that a mosque is not the primary reason for this community center being built, and that they should be just as entitled to federal funding as any other organization like it (eg. YMCA). How have I attempted to mislead anyone about the YMCA? I simply said that this Muslim Community Center is not the only religious communal organization that has attempted to get money from the federal government. That is merely showing folks the whole picture who might otherwise just take what is given to them and unfairly assume judgement before knowing the entire situation. Kinda like all those folks who listen to Rush Limbaugh like he is a prophet of God himself.

As long as the YMCA receives ANY sort of federal funding, no one against the Muslim community center has any right to speak out against them receiving federal funding. It's that simple. You cannot have your cake and eat it, too.
--
Boots
December 6th, 2010  
AZ_Infantry
 
 
Holy cow, who cares if it contains a Mosque? Everyone in this country has the right and freedom to worship in the manner they choose. If a Wiccan center wants to put up a tree in the middle of their facility, go for it!

Simple solution:

Use the government funds to erect the building. Use donations to build and decorate the Mosque.

There - separation of church and state settled.
December 6th, 2010  
Rob Henderson
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ_Infantry
Holy cow, who cares if it contains a Mosque? Everyone in this country has the right and freedom to worship in the manner they choose. If a Wiccan center wants to put up a tree in the middle of their facility, go for it!

Simple solution:

Use the government funds to erect the building. Use donations to build and decorate the Mosque.

There - separation of church and state settled.
Dear Christ... Did anyone else feel that chill? I think Hell just froze over. AZ and I agree.
December 6th, 2010  
AZ_Infantry
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Henderson
Dear Christ... Did anyone else feel that chill? I think Hell just froze over. AZ and I agree.
Hey, even I have my off days
December 7th, 2010  
Partisan
 
 
From what i have been able to glean, less than 1/10th of the space would be used for religious worship. The rest is designed as community support centre, in an area which apparently needs these facilities, such as library, counselling and other "muslim" stuff.

i am very concerned that almost every debate conducted here in the U is centred around your religious credentials. Unfortunastely I am an atheist and therefore have no religious credentials and apparently my view, is therefore, worthless - so much for separation of church and state!!!
December 7th, 2010  
George
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Partisan
From what i have been able to glean, less than 1/10th of the space would be used for religious worship. The rest is designed as community support centre, in an area which apparently needs these facilities, such as library, counselling and other "muslim" stuff.

i am very concerned that almost every debate conducted here in the U is centred around your religious credentials. Unfortunastely I am an atheist and therefore have no religious credentials and apparently my view, is therefore, worthless - so much for separation of church and state!!!
The whole thing is the Federal Govt is prohibited from Establishing an Official Religion. Apparently the Fed. Govt has spent money on religion all along. The "Seperation" is not religion per se, but an actual Church witch is a religious entity/enterprise/organization. The Govt isn't supposed to recognize one organization like, say, the United Methodist Church. Nothing in the Constitution says the US couldn't be declared a Christian Nation because there is more than 1 Christian Church. No where does it say the govt has to be religiously sterile, something the Left & Athiests have been trying to achieve lately.
The thing here with the Mosque is Moslems have a habit of building Mosques on/near sites of thier victories over infedels. Will this place be use to preach peace as the builders claim, or will it be a platform for cheering the fall of the Towers?
December 7th, 2010  
Rob Henderson
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by George

The whole thing is the Federal Govt is prohibited from Establishing an Official Religion. Apparently the Fed. Govt has spent money on religion all along. The "Seperation" is not religion per se, but an actual Church witch is a religious entity/enterprise/organization. The Govt isn't supposed to recognize one organization like, say, the United Methodist Church. Nothing in the Constitution says the US couldn't be declared a Christian Nation because there is more than 1 Christian Church. No where does it say the govt has to be religiously sterile, something the Left & Athiests have been trying to achieve lately.
You're right. The Constitution doesn't say anything about separation of church and state. That being acknowledged, do you honestly think the integration of the two would be a GOOD thing?? Let's take a look at the history books. Catholicism plus governmental power = Crusades/Roman Empire. Islam plus governmental power = Moorish Empire.

Government and religion do NOT mix. Period.
Quote:
Originally Posted by George
The thing here with the Mosque is Moslems have a habit of building Mosques on/near sites of thier victories over infedels. Will this place be use to preach peace as the builders claim, or will it be a platform for cheering the fall of the Towers?
No one on this board (aside from Redleg, aka The Oracle) can answer that question. You don't know, I don't know, Partisan doesn't know, Chukpike (despite what he may tell you) doesn't know. Nobody knows. So what's the more open-minded option? To let the COMMUNITY CENTER (which happens to have a mosque in it) be built and let the events unfold as they may, or to show the terrorists that there is truth to their claims of Christian bias in the United States by not allowing the COMMUNITY CENTER be built just because it has a Muslim name attached to it?
December 8th, 2010  
George
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Henderson
You're right. The Constitution doesn't say anything about separation of church and state. That being acknowledged, do you honestly think the integration of the two would be a GOOD thing?? Let's take a look at the history books. Catholicism plus governmental power = Crusades/Roman Empire. Islam plus governmental power = Moorish Empire.

Government and religion do NOT mix. Period.
Integration? As in Official religion? No. However there has been a religious presence in Govt from the beginning. G. Washington ad libbing "So help me God." 10 Comamdments, Biblical quotes on Courthouses, ect. There is no evidence of any intentions of a religiously sterile govt, i e no nativity scene @ City Hall, ect that is being pushed. That's twisting the original intent.
Christian bias against moslems...let's see what happens if you apply to build a YMCA in Mecca.
 


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