Greece rejects joint maneuver with Israel against Iran

[VDKMS]

Do you think I get serious the comments in this forum? Most of your information are originated from the western media and it is like the bubble on the water. I am sure many of their news are lie and are directed by global dirty Zionist network. They are very successful in their job. They color the sparrow and then sell it as a canary. And it is why a country with brilliant civilization, a country who observe all international rules shown as a rebel, but a group of people who occupy the others land, kill them and make them homeless, don’t sign the international treaties and threaten other countries shown as an oppressed.

The Western media is a free media. You can find all kinds of information. Some you like, others you dislike. Everyone has an opinion and can find articles to support his opinion or that disagrees with it. In your country, like in China or North Korea, there is no free press. The government decides what you are allowed to hear. In a free country the person himselve decides what he wants to hear.
Believe me, there is no Zionist network. But it is a fact that many Jews have high places. Not only in the financial sector but also in the entertainment sector.
Israel is not that bad. You are furious because you think that Israel (and others) are going to attack you. Up untill know they didn't. Israel was attacked many times over by many countries with the intention to destroy it and you are surprised that they are very wary?

 

[VDKMS]

Sixty years of actual experience suggests that atomic weapons are practical only for one purpose: to prevent your nation from being attacked. You don’t have to be political scientist Kenneth Waltz (see his 2003 book “The Spread of Nuclear Weapons”, which argues that nuclear proliferation is mainly good because it prevents war) to want to live in a world where nations don’t attack each other. Deterrence has, since 1945, ended great-power war. Deterrence has reduced and might end regional war. There is a gamble involved, obviously. But the likely outcome of Iranian possession of an atomic bomb is that no nation will attack Iran. Why shouldn’t Iran desire this? The United States, Russia, United Kingdom and other nations desired deterrence against attack and would have been entirely outraged if lectured otherwise by the Security Council.

The simple reality is that other nations cannot prevent Iran from fashioning an atomic device. Cannot, except perhaps by an all-out nuclear first strike that obliterates much of the country, or invasion and permanent occupation of a nation substantially larger than Iraq and Afghanistan combined. Conventional aerial attack might slow but cannot stop an atomic program using underground facilities – or conventional aerial attack would have been used against North Korea.

Assuming Iranian acquisition of atomic weapons is near-inevitable, the international response should not be more fist-shaking for the cameras and empty verbiage, but outreach to return Iran to the family of nations. A core lesson of the Cold War is that bluster fails, constructive engagement succeeds. Engagement with Iran would lower regional tensions and lend support to the Iranian democracy movement. The first step regarding Iran should be a much more aggressive approach to diplomacy than we’ve displayed thus far. The best defense against Iranian nuclear arms is better diplomatic relations with Iran.

I was reluctant to argue your article because all the others were very well thought out.

The problem with Iran is , it's unpredictible. They say they want peace but they harbor Al Qaeda. They say they don't want nuclear weapons but they are researching how to deliver it. They threaten to block the strait of Hormus although the whole strait is not theirs so they are willing to commit an act of war on another state (Oman) and block other countries oil (Iraq and others). Countries that probably don't want to meddle.

Ever thought about what will happen if Iran threatens to fire a nuclear weapon on Paris, Brussels or Berlin if the sanctions are not lifted or if an artist makes another satirical drawing of Muhammed?

What if somewhere a dirty bomb makes many casualties and it is traced back to one of Iran's plants, who is going to attack a nuclear armed Iran?

Ever thought were Iran is involved with? They deny everything even if the evidence is overwhelming. Lebanon is thanks to Iran a huge munition depot. Gaza is going the same way. Their forces are arming and helping Syria to defeat a popular uprising. They were cought red handed in Nigeria, Thailand, India and Georgia.

And last but not least, look at the history of countries ruled by clerics or religion.

 

[senojekips]

Well I am old enough. Your portrayal of our attitude towards your 'Ruskies' is nonsense . The dangers were recognised and challenged until until the threat, which was real, was overcome. The communist advances into indo-china were halted at great cost, in fact. Success was achieved by the leadership of USA. I think that you are drifting away from reality in your desperation to make everything fit into your one trick agenda.

Next thing - you'll be trying to tell us you are a Jew! Spare us please. LOL.

Yeah, I have seen all your propaganda before, and......................................................................

Another typical rubbish answer. If you are that old and can't remember the Cold war obviously Alzheimers is well on it's way, you'd better get someone to pin a note on your back with your name and address when you are allowed to leave the house.

Modern Russophobia peaked during the Cold War, driven by Western fears of the Soviet role in communism's mission to take over the "Free World".

Oh,... and just a reminder about Vietnam, we sued for peace at the Paris Peace talks and vacated in rush that made news around the world, I guess you must have been having a little nanna nap at the time.

I love the fact that you really hate it because I'm Jewish and I admit that Palestine has legitimacy. We've been though all this before haven't we?.... Or don't you remember.

Obviously not....... LOL

 

[hamidreza]

I agree with your proposal if Iran and the other countries also make a peace deal with Israel en recognise it.

In fact it is all so simple if you take the first step. How can you expect a country to act first when it is not even recognised by you.

A new and previously secret enrichment plant being built underground near Qom, without the knowledge or decleration to the IAEA, was revealed in 2009. And you expect us to believe that you are only telling the truth?

Competition in nuclear activities is one thing and the Israel regime legitimacy is another thing. Legitimacy is not something that you will be able to get it with nukes. It need root.
In this condition I am sure Israel and its supporters don’t accept this proposal because Israel doesn’t want to lose her military superiority. They want to have nukes to use it if they require. Is any other reason? [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
Let me tell you something else. Israelis always say that in WWII Jews were oppressed and the west has accepted this. And they have made this regime to protect the right of Jews. Ok, why they didn’t make this country in somewhere else likes US, Canada or Australia? They have vast lands and they are care about Jews. They can give them a land which can be several times bigger than Palestine and they can be good neighbors for them.

 

[hamidreza]

I pay 2.02 dollar for a liter (95 unleaded) but I can get as many as I am able to pay. In the Netherlands they pay almost 2.50 dollar for a liter.

I just wanted to say your sanctions don’t effect on our economy as you think or wish.

 

[George]

Ok, why they didn’t make this country in somewhere else likes US, Canada or Australia? They have vast lands and they are care about Jews.

The area was the homeland for Jews long before Islam came along, why not move the Moslems somewhere else? Maybe your Country? Saudi Arabia is mainly vacant, so how about the Country of origin?

 

[hamidreza]

The Western media is a free media. You can find all kinds of information. Some you like, others you dislike. Everyone has an opinion and can find articles to support his opinion or that disagrees with it. In your country, like in China or North Korea, there is no free press. The government decides what you are allowed to hear. In a free country the person himselve decides what he wants to hear.
Believe me, there is no Zionist network. But it is a fact that many Jews have high places. Not only in the financial sector but also in the entertainment sector.
Israel is not that bad. You are furious because you think that Israel (and others) are going to attack you. Up untill know they didn't. Israel was attacked many times over by many countries with the intention to destroy it and you are surprised that they are very wary?

Yes the western media is free. It is like a gun that you can free to buy it and also you are free to use it (at least against the weak or independent countries). Until 70 years ago, the military power was the best way to colonized and plunders the people of the world. They have two world wars for that and fought with each other like hungry wolfs. But then they found a stronger and better way and it was media.
The goals of the western countries leaders for plundering haven’t changed. Just the methods have changed. They use their media to destroy third world countries cultures, traditions and mores. Then these societies lose their identify and a society who hasn’t identify lose her confidence. So they become cowards, depended and obedient and it is the society that west wants. This society is plunder able because they do not dare to defend their interests. There are a lot of countries in this type and I can give you many examples.

 

[Del Boy]

The area was the homeland for Jews long before Islam came along, why not move the Moslems somewhere else? Maybe your Country? Saudi Arabia is mainly vacant, so how about the Country of origin?

Exactly George. Arabia has land to spare, plenty of it. Whereas Israel is a tiny sliver of their homeland. The Palestinians have been misused by their neighbours and kept as refugees deliberately for their own political agenda of destroying Israel and ridding the region of infidels. The drove the indigenous Jews from their own countries, and Israel absorbed those Jews , who had lost their homes, their wealth, their possessions, billions of £s. Compensation !! Nothing.

All part of the demonisation of the Jews. Egypt in the past has used that disgusting libel, as did Hussaini and the Nazis. Hitler had to first demonize the Jews before carrying out his genocide .

We now find it rearing its ugly head constantly from our one-man pursuent of this policy, on the basis that if you bully all those with opposing views and repeat the same mantra often enough it will somehow be accepted as truth. It is recognisable by the inability to never, ever, give Israel's side of the dispute a single nod of understanding; by abusing and insulting anyone who dares to have any opposing views to their own; by their fear of peace breaking out against all odds.

 

[Der Alte]

I was reluctant to argue your article because all the others were very well thought out.

The problem with Iran is , it's unpredictible. They say they want peace but they harbor Al Qaeda. They say they don't want nuclear weapons but they are researching how to deliver it. They threaten to block the strait of Hormus although the whole strait is not theirs so they are willing to commit an act of war on another state (Oman) and block other countries oil (Iraq and others). Countries that probably don't want to meddle.

Ever thought about what will happen if Iran threatens to fire a nuclear weapon on Paris, Brussels or Berlin if the sanctions are not lifted or if an artist makes another satirical drawing of Muhammed?

What if somewhere a dirty bomb makes many casualties and it is traced back to one of Iran's plants, who is going to attack a nuclear armed Iran?

Ever thought were Iran is involved with? They deny everything even if the evidence is overwhelming. Lebanon is thanks to Iran a huge munition depot. Gaza is going the same way. Their forces are arming and helping Syria to defeat a popular uprising. They were cought red handed in Nigeria, Thailand, India and Georgia.

And last but not least, look at the history of countries ruled by clerics or religion.

"If you want to understand the policy of a country, take a look at the map," said Napoleon.

Iran has not attacked any other country in a thousand years. Ahmadinejad talks like a wild demagogue, but the Iranian leadership actually treads very carefully. Joint national suicide is not an option. So Iran will develop nuclear weapons. That's not the end of the world. We'll live in a situation of a balance of terror. Like America and Russia during the Cold War. Like India and Pakistan now. Not pleasant, but not too terrible, either.

Iran, the Soviet Union - Do I see some similarities here?

 

[hamidreza]

The area was the homeland for Jews long before Islam came along, why not move the Moslems somewhere else? Maybe your Country? Saudi Arabia is mainly vacant, so how about the Country of origin

?
if it was their homeland we can claim about many of ME country because most of them were parts of Achaemenid empire( the first Persian empire) 2500 years ago.

 

[VDKMS]

I just wanted to say your sanctions don’t effect on our economy as you think or wish.

The sanctions are there to hurt the government, not the Iranian people. So it seems to be working

 

[VDKMS]

Competition in nuclear activities is one thing and the Israel regime legitimacy is another thing. Legitimacy is not something that you will be able to get it with nukes. It need root.
In this condition I am sure Israel and its supporters don’t accept this proposal because Israel doesn’t want to lose her military superiority. They want to have nukes to use it if they require. Is any other reason? [FONT=&quot][/FONT]
Let me tell you something else. Israelis always say that in WWII Jews were oppressed and the west has accepted this. And they have made this regime to protect the right of Jews. Ok, why they didn’t make this country in somewhere else likes US, Canada or Australia? They have vast lands and they are care about Jews. They can give them a land which can be several times bigger than Palestine and they can be good neighbors for them.

The difference between Jews and Iranians is that the Jews kept their original belief. That's why they were expelled so many times. They preferred to leave instead of converting to another religion.The only town that they still hold is Jerusalem. Many Jews wanted to go back or have their "Israel" back, mostly for religious reasons. Iran was conquered by Muslim armies and the Iranians gradually converted to Islam. If your people would have been expelled instead of converted wouldn't you fight to get your country back?

 

[VDKMS]

Yes the western media is free. It is like a gun that you can free to buy it and also you are free to use it (at least against the weak or independent countries). Until 70 years ago, the military power was the best way to colonized and plunders the people of the world. They have two world wars for that and fought with each other like hungry wolfs. But then they found a stronger and better way and it was media.
The goals of the western countries leaders for plundering haven’t changed. Just the methods have changed. They use their media to destroy third world countries cultures, traditions and mores. Then these societies lose their identify and a society who hasn’t identify lose her confidence. So they become cowards, depended and obedient and it is the society that west wants. This society is plunder able because they do not dare to defend their interests. There are a lot of countries in this type and I can give you many examples.

You should do more research about the "western" media. If you do, you'll probably find "western" media that agrees with your thoughts, but also some that are contrary. We don't chew what they serve us, we sort it out ourselves. That is something new to you because you are tought to chew.

 

[VDKMS]

"If you want to understand the policy of a country, take a look at the map," said Napoleon.

Iran has not attacked any other country in a thousand years. Ahmadinejad talks like a wild demagogue, but the Iranian leadership actually treads very carefully. Joint national suicide is not an option. So Iran will develop nuclear weapons. That's not the end of the world. We'll live in a situation of a balance of terror. Like America and Russia during the Cold War. Like India and Pakistan now. Not pleasant, but not too terrible, either.

Iran, the Soviet Union - Do I see some similarities here?

I know Iran never attacked another country (directly), in fact it was conquered itself by muslim armies in the 7th century. I hope you are right and I am wrong. But still I am very sceptical and not convinced.
You can also wage war through your proxies.

 

[VDKMS]

?
if it was their homeland we can claim about many of ME country because most of them were parts of Achaemenid empire( the first Persian empire) 2500 years ago.

He was talking about homeland, not conquered land.
To stay a little bit on topic, a Greek finished the first Persian empire.

 

[Der Alte]

I know Iran never attacked another country (directly), in fact it was conquered itself by muslim armies in the 7th century. I hope you are right and I am wrong. But still I am very sceptical and not convinced.
You can also wage war through your proxies.

Tehran's foreign policy has its own strategic logic. Formulated not by mad mullahs but by calculating ayatollahs, it is based on Iran's ambitions and Tehran's perception of what threatens them. Tehran's top priority is the survival of the Islamic Republic as it exists now. Tehran views the United States as an existential threat and to counter it has devised a strategy that rests on both deterrence and competition in the Middle East.

To deter any possible military actions by the United States and its allies, Iran is improving its retaliatory capabilities by developing the means to pursue asymmetric, low-intensity warfare, both inside and outside the country; modernizing its weapons; building indigenous missile and antimissile systems; and developing a nuclear program while cultivating doubts about its exact capability. And to neutralize the United States' attempts to contain it, the Iranian government is both undermining U.S. interests and increasing its own power in the vast region that stretches from the Levant and the Persian Gulf to the Caucasus and Central Asia. Although it is being careful to avoid a military confrontation with the United States, Tehran is maneuvering to prevent Washington from leading a united front against it and strategically using Iran's oil and gas resources to reward its friends.

For a supposedly closed society, contemporary Iran is surprisingly open to journalists, researchers, and occasional travelers. Despite this abundance, understanding Iran presents a perpetual challenge for external observers, thanks to the layers of complexity and contradictions beneath Iran’s surface and the country’s proclivity for unpredictability. The difficulty is magnified in the United States, where long estrangement has deprived most Americans of direct exposure to Iran and generated an appetite for sensationalism or sentimentality in place of serious analysis.

 

[Del Boy]

Originally Posted by Del Boy
Well I am old enough. Your portrayal of our attitude towards your 'Ruskies' is nonsense . The dangers were recognised and challenged until until the threat, which was real, was overcome. The communist advances into indo-china were halted at great cost, in fact. Success was achieved by the leadership of USA. I think that you are drifting away from reality in your desperation to make everything fit into your one trick agenda.

Another typical rubbish answer. If you are that old and can't remember the Cold war obviously Alzheimers is well on it's way, you'd better get someone to pin a note on your back with your name and address when you are allowed to leave the house.

Oh CLASS, real class! See what I mean about your grip on reality. I was part of the cold war in Europe, behind the Iron Curtain on occasions. Your pics are great fun and confirm my post , thank you. Is it that you have misplaced your specs, or is it your comprehension on the blink?. Your pics are fun, say nothing relevant - 1 comic-cuts naive poster of sorts and 1
popular depiction of the Russian bear accurately displaying the threat posed. After all they did tell the world they would dance on our graves.

I did not say that the battle was won in Indo-china but that the threats were halted at great sacrifice. The domino effect never happenned and the Russian threat gradually diminished. It was chess not black-jack. Congratulations USA.

Surely you can read my words:-



Originally Posted by Del Boy
Well I am old enough. Your portrayal of our attitude towards your 'Ruskies' is nonsense . The dangers were recognised and challenged until the threat, which was real, was ovrcome. The communist advances into indo-china were halted at great cost, in fact. Success was achieved by the leadership of USA. I think that you are drifting away from reality in your desperation to make everything fit into your one trick agenda.

I love the fact that you really hate it because I'm Jewish and I admit that Palestine has legitimacy. We've been though all this before haven't we?.... Or don't you remember.

Glad to see you love something. Understand that I have no place for hatred. I value only honour and honesty.
I have never claimed that Palestine has no legitimacy, far from it. You twist matters you see - where we part company is that you deny any legitimacy to Israel; you demand the destruction of Israel.

I do not believe that you are Jewish - having Jewish relatives does not make a Jew.

 

[LeEnfield]

I still think the main reason is that Greece is broke and is not going to waste many millions of Euros rushing around burning up fuel and ammunition and playing soldiers,

 

[senojekips]

Understand that I have no place for hatred. I value only honour and honesty.
I have never claimed that Palestine has no legitimacy, far from it. You twist matters you see - where we part company is that you deny any legitimacy to Israel; you demand the destruction of Israel.

I do not believe that you are Jewish - having Jewish relatives does not make a Jew.

You??... Honour?...honesty?... Haha,... a supporter of a regime modeled on Nazism who murders women and children to gain land? I think the only word for you, a man who doesn't remember the Red Scare and McCarthyism and it's associated witch hunts, is, delusional.

Find me one post where I have demanded the destruction of Israel. I have often stated that it can't be on the land of another people without their agreement. I do state that it should be removed from it's present location in Palestine. That is not destruction, just removal elsewhere, after all Israel is not a location, it is merely an idea, a Jewish Utopia or more to the point, Lebensraum.

I don't suppose you've remembered the Cold war yet? :sarc:

As for what you "think" of my ancestry, I really couldn't give a flying fcuk. The fact that I'm recognised as Jewish by Australia's most noted Jewish Genealogical Society will do me fine. LOL
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The area was the homeland for Jews long before Islam came along, why not move the Moslems somewhere else? Maybe your Country? Saudi Arabia is mainly vacant, so how about the Country of origin?

Where is your homeland? What legitimacy do you have to forcibly occupy the land of your forebears, and what do you think would be the reaction if you were to go back there and drive off the present occupants, killing those who fought back?

If the US is so supportive of this policy, how come you didn't offer the Jews a homeland? Yeah, it's OK so long as it's not your country being given away.

 

[Del Boy]

You??... Honour?...honesty?... Haha,... a supporter of a regime modeled on Nazism who murders women and children to gain land? I think the only word for you, a man who doesn't remember the Red Scare and McCarthyism and it's associated witch hunts, is, delusional.

And that man is yourself . On the other hand, I remember the Red Scare and McCarthyism very well indeed.

And that man is you, a man who cannot understand the difference between a brave democracy and the Nazi regime responsible for the attempted genocide, enthusiastically encouraged and supported by Hussaini and his hordes,and fellow travellers like yourself.

You can fool others, but not me, when you claim to be Jewish ; you enthusiastically support and encourage those who demand the destruction of Israel.

About honesty and honour - the Israelis have a perfectly legitimate claim to their homeland, far better than your right to live in Australia, a far better claim. In fact no right at all, using your own measurement, which was never a homeland for Europeans. As you are so adament, show some honour ; pack your bags and leave Australia to those you stolen it from, murdering the indigenous people to gain land. Just remove yourself elsewhere that's all.