Greece Air Force

R

rock45

Active member
I see that Boeing is offering the F/A-18 E/F AESA radar and all and if Greece did buy it I assume it would fill the light striker/attack role. Greece could retired the older Mirage 2000's from the anti-ship duties the newer Mirage 2000-5 can't fire anti-ship missiles, so the older types are maintained. Next the F-4 could follow wouldn't make much sense using a higher maintence types with low maintenace modern Hornets could be used. I think the A-7 are retired or are close to it. A Greek friend told me a good portion of Greece's Viper are Block-30 and need upgrading or replacing but I'm still trying to get a numbers on that.

Boeing to Offer Super Hornet for Greece's Next-Generation Fighter Program
ST. LOUIS, March 10, 2009 -- Boeing [NYSE: BA] announced today that it will promote the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet as the next-generation fighter for the Hellenic Republic (Greece).
"We are pleased to offer the Hellenic Air Force the advanced combat capability of the Block II Super Hornet," said Dan Korte, vice president and general manager of Global Strike Systems for Boeing Integrated Defense Systems. "In addition, we look forward to furthering long-term partnerships with the Hellenic government and aerospace industry."
The Super Hornet, with core strengths in both performance and technology, is the most advanced multipurpose strike fighter in production today, with a proven performance record through more than 500,000 hours of flight time. It is operated by the U.S. Navy and is currently being built for the Royal Australian Air Force.
The aircraft is the first operationally deployed strike fighter to incorporate next-generation capabilities, such as the Raytheon APG-79 Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar integrated with advanced electronic-warfare systems. The Super Hornet program has continued to add capability to the aircraft while decreasing cost over its lifetime.
Boeing has delivered more than 380 Super Hornets to the U.S. Navy, all on or ahead of original production schedule. Australia is procuring Super Hornets to bolster its fleet of F/A-18 Hornets. Boeing is in discussions with several other international customers about their interest in procuring the Super Hornet.



Link
http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2009/q1/090310b_nr.html
 
NH90 for Greece CSAR

The Greece AirForce ordered a lot of Helikopter NH90 with the CSAR-Equipment. What is the Timeline for delivered ???
In the Moment your AirForce is flighting the Eurocopter Super Cougar,or ???
 
Hi PzBrig15
Didn't know Greece was part of that venture I'll have to look it up. On paper seems like a good helicopter but just too many hands in the pot. I think I read Germany doesn't have enough trainers to train their pilots. They may have ten early delivered models. This poster in this other forum I'm in mentioned that the EC-625 which I think hold 16/20 troops like the NH-90 and cost less. I can't seem to get good prices on any of the EC series helicopter EC-145/625/and 725

In the Moment your AirForce is flighting the Eurocopter Super Cougar,or ???
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In the US Armed Forces the US Army and US Marines fly more helicopters then the USAF does. The US Army flies a UH-72A which is a EC-145 copy and the US Coast Guard flies a flies I think a few models of Eurocopter's but I don't think the Super Cougar is used? The US has it's own large line of heavy helicopters CH-47/48/53

The US President uses EH101 Merlin
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/eh101-specs.htm
 
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Greece will likely go with a French Rafale offer or the Typhoon T3, if they can finance it. F-35 is quite out of the picture as Greece mainly focuses on Aegean theatre A2A engagements vs. TuAF.
 
Hi Lunatik
The finance part is the key I've seen rumors of a French interests into some sort of deal with exchanging older Mirage 2000 or Mirage 2000-5's but I think that fell through France would only take back the Mirage 2000-5s. The few things saw on this weren't very clear and still not sure what exactly went down.

Another rumor I heard is LM offered to exchange all of Greece's Block-30 Vipers for 52+ models, to keep Greece out of buying the Rafale. Again can't seem to find something that really claims that. Greece if true should not past up the Block-52+ offer. The Rafale might be a little better air to air platform because it's a slightly newer design but it still have some majar catching up to do in the air to ground side for sure. Greece already has the 52+ types or has them on order so support, maintenace, training, etc is already in place. If true the LM deal seems to good to past on I think.

Do you think the Typhoon really has a chance even if they found the money? I knew it was selected once before but throught a Greece/French government things would prevent it from coming up again, I maybe wrong.
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Hey Rock, how are you?

I think the Typhoon is more than a developing fighter, it's a symbol. It promotes the idea of One Europe and its united defense in the air. In the face of a rising Russia and globally shifting power balances, the EU know they must remain united and stand strong. Typhoon is a major part of their common defense image and I really doubt it'll go under anytime soon. Regardless of the difficulties it faces, it's still adequately financed.

Greece's one and only realistic military concern is Turkey; which involves a very complex Aegean theatre conflict with not only AFs, but also navies' and armies' involvement. Greece knows a Turkish offensive on the easternmost islands (they're the largest anyway) will be a success-due to proximity to Turkish mainland, and the primary goal is to stop TuAF and TN from advancing westward. It is of utmost importance for Greece to organize and maintain aerial superiority in the western Aegean. Typhoon and Rafael are good candidates for the job.
 
By the way, HAF is already a very formidable airforce. In fact, compared to the size of the airspace they're expected to protect, they are a GIANT force!

Yes, they're still flying the A-7s, but that's cute. :santa:

mick_balter_a7.jpg
 
the A-7 II will be out of the force till 2009 cristmas . Now greece is waiting for the eurofighters also made a deal with boeing for the f-18 SH .
greece is going to buy 267 new fighters .HAF's fighter limit is 600 fighters , now its 301 and going to be 568 by 2010-2014
 
PzBrig15 said:
The Greece AirForce ordered a lot of Helikopter NH90 with the CSAR-Equipment. What is the Timeline for delivered ???
In the Moment your AirForce is flighting the Eurocopter Super Cougar,or ???
Click to expand...

The NH90 are already in HAF . Greece uses AH-64 longbow for attack heli .
42 AH-64 longbow in service .
 
Hi hetfield15
Going over the thread and so you posted this:
Now greece is waiting for the eurofighters
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Like Lunatik I would like to see a source for this.

But also:
also made a deal with boeing for the f-18 SH .
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Thought Greece AF hated the Hornet and Greece's older Mirage 2000s beat them in some mock training a few years back?

Thanks
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rock45 said:
Hi hetfield15
Going over the thread and so you posted this:
Like Lunatik I would like to see a source for this.

But also:

Thought Greece AF hated the Hornet and Greece's older Mirage 2000s beat them in some mock training a few years back?

Thanks
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hetfield15 please read the rules.
 
I heard russia was offering greece a deal where if they bought the su-35, they would allow them to be the first export customer of the pak-fa. Sorry i don't have a link, but if you type it into google you will find some results.
 
Can any one tell me where they are going to get the money from to buy all this stuff. Wages are being cut along with pensions as the country is financially up the creek with out a paddle, yet they can find billions for the latest toys for it's armed forces
 
LeEnfield said:
Can any one tell me where they are going to get the money from to buy all this stuff. Wages are being cut along with pensions as the country is financially up the creek with out a paddle, yet they can find billions for the latest toys for it's armed forces
Click to expand...

They can always borrow money from the U.S! We've got plenty, we just keep printing more! :D
 
LeEnfield said:
Can any one tell me where they are going to get the money from to buy all this stuff. Wages are being cut along with pensions as the country is financially up the creek with out a paddle, yet they can find billions for the latest toys for it's armed forces
Click to expand...

Same as with everything else down there I suppose, the Germans will pay the bill, again.. :confused:
 
1776 said:
They can always borrow money from the U.S! We've got plenty, we just keep printing more! :D
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Haha! Well, budget cuts in Greece are severely affecting defense procurements. After all, until recently Greece had among the highest defense budgets in relation to the GDP in NATO (guess why).

Anyway no new fighter will be likely acquired in the following years. Greek Air Force might get some new weapons (e.g. SPICE from Israel), or proceed to some upgrades for the older F-16s Block 40.
 
I wonder why the Greek AF would consider the F/A-18E/F instead of the F-16F Block #60? If the Greek AF gets the SH, what would their air superiority fighter would be. The Mirage 2000 is a better dog-fighter/air superiority than the F-16C of which the Greek AF already has. The F/A-18E/F is less capable as a turn & burn dog-fighter than the F-16 is.
 
Re: Greek Air Force

I wanted to add a couple other items on this topic;
The F/A-18 is a good fighter at especially lower speeds and altitudes! (Not surprising for a carrier borne aircraft.) The F/A-18 is a better fighter when you load it with 50% fuel and 10,000-lbs (4,535-Kg) of bombs then, compare to its competition, the MiG-29, the Mirage 2000 and, the F-16. The problems of comparing mass media specs such as the F/A-18 having a maximum G-load of 7.5 Gs while F-16, MiG-29 and, Mirage 2000 are rated as having a G-load of 9G'S. The F/A-18 is a better bomb truck than its competitors. EXAMPLE -on 01/17/91 (PGW#1), four F/A-18Cs with 8,000-lbs (3,628-Kgs) bomb load on their way to bomb a ground target. The F/A-18s were warned about two MiG-21s approaching them from head-on. Two of the four F/A-18s headed to the ground target and the other two headed for the MiG-21s. The MiGs were locked-up at fifteen miles by the F/A-18, after the warning from a USN E-2C. (SEE NOTE #1) A flip of a switch and the computer control software changes from air to ground to air-to-air. The pilot picks the weapon he will use and fires on the MiG-21s.
There is a videos of the lead F/A-18Cs HUD. The video shows the MiG-21s as the first Sparrow Missile hits the MiG, a few seconds later the Sidewinder hit the same MiG as it burning wreck as it descend. (SEE NOTE#2) The other F/A-18 shot down the other MiG-21. The F/A-18Cs flipped the switch again and went to bomb its target.
How good a fighter is all dependent upon what the designers were tasked to design, how well trained the pilot and GCI operators are. (SEE NOTE #3)
Over at "F-16.Net" there are discussions on which of these two fighters, the F-16 or Mirage-2000, which are better in a dogfight. (SEE NOTE#4) One responder was an F-16C pilot from the Greek Air Force.... an air force which has both the M-2000 and F-16. He stated that when the pilots have equal experience in the M-2K or F-16 meet in combat, the M-2K would win nine out of ten times! The one out of ten times the F-16 won was because the missile of the Mirage failed to guide!!! Several F-16 pilots who had experience against the Mirage 2000 also agreed, due to the fact that the M-2K has a superior 'instantaneous rate of turn'. If the M-2K has a pilot with less experience than the F-16's pilot, the F-16 pilot will most likely win the fight.
Another incidents between the Greek and Turkish AFs, there have been many combat incidents of which I think, thirteen F-16s failed to return. The only case that differs from most of the others is on 10/08/96 two Greek AF Mirage 2000EGs took on a F-16C and a Turkish AF F-16D. The M-2K fired a Magic-2 Missile to destroy the F-16D. F-16 pilot 'Rei' was killed and the WSO was injured but, recovered. For many years I did not hear anything about the WSO. Several years ago I came across a newspaper article from Athens, I got parts of the article translated to English and found the F-16D's WSO was on an exchange tour to the Turkish AF from Israeli AF! He spent about thirty minutes in the water being rescued by a Greek search and rescue. Later when the WSO was released from the hospital and sent back to Turkey (by a C-130). There is a photograph of the WSO being wheel out of the hospital on a gurney. From there he was sent back to Turkey I don't know how long it was before he was sent back to Israel.

NOTE:
1) The MiG-21s had gotten to close to an attack package of A-6 Intruders and A-7 Corsair IIs. The air protection fighters for that package were F-14s Tomcats, which chased the MiG-21s away... right at the F/A-18s.

2) The video is on Youtube, URL;
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kce24pljN2E"]‪Operation DESERT STORM-MiG-21 Shootdown‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]

3) Unfortunately, most AFs do NOT use the fighters given to them by the USSR the was the Soviet designers intended for them to be used! There is no reason the MiG-29 should have a "negative" kill ratio! A kill ratio of 11:38 is horrible and should not exist below kill ratio of 1:1. The MiG-29's kills include a transport air along the border with South Africa and its northern neighbors -Mozambique and Zimbabwe. Other kills were against privately owned, two Cessna 337s -over the Caribbean Sea near Cuba and finally, in an air incident between four Russian MiG-29s and four Su-22M-3Ks of the Afghanistan AF, which they lost! The MiG-29 has not won a confirmed air victory against any other fourth generation fighter. There was an fratricide incident with the Afghani AF in which one MiG-29 shot down another MiG-29. Most of the MiG-29s combat has been Ethiopia AF and Ethiopian AF and their border war!

I am not trying to rain on the MiG-29's parade but, so far most MiG-29 pilots to see combat have not been well trained.

4) A comment by "kovamaniac" (half way down the page), below 6-7,000-ft. the only aircraft that could consistently beat the M-2000, is the Su-27!!!!

Ref;
http://www.f-16.net/aircraft-database/F-16/airframe-profile/3371
http://www.f-16.net/index.php?name=...start=45&sid=d4c16bed463694b6f4d9beb8cd5af017 __ half way down the page postings by kovamaniac & duplex.
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_fighting_falcon_airframe-3371.html
http://users.accesscomm.ca/magnusfamily/noname.htm
 
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