The great hoax of WW2

Whether supplies travel by rail or not, trucks are required to get the supplies to rail heads at either end. Once at the rail head the supplies have got to be sorted, and loaded in some sort of order, at the destination rail head supplies are again sorted then taken to various dispersal points for supply to different units. Logistics is not as simple as some think it is

The problem with transporting supplies by rail, it doesn't take much to destroy tracks or indeed air attacks destroying the whole train along with the supplies. Which the Germans found out to their cost more then once. If a truck convoy is attacked by air its highly unlikely that the whole convoy would be destroyed.

Moronic arguments from a "genius" yet again.

Go read up how easy it is to fix the tracks and how long did it take for the Germans to do so (hint: less than an hour in most cases). A thoroughly bombed truck convoy can clog a road for a full day.
 
Moronic arguments from a "genius" yet again.

Go read up how easy it is to fix the tracks and how long did it take for the Germans to do so (hint: less than an hour in most cases).

Are your parents siblings by any chance?

I was involved in logistics in the Royal Air Force for 5 years and the Royal Corps of Transport for 10 years, I have run sections and I have run troops. I think I've got some idea how it works.

The usual idea is to blow the track just in front of the train as its approaching. Now imagine how long it would take to clear the track of wrecked loco's and wagons, never mind the supplies. Or didn't your lamebrain think of that? If ignorance is bliss, you must be the happiest person alive.

A thoroughly bombed bombed truck convoy can clog the road for a full day

Do you have any idea of convoy procedure? I'd love to hear your theory.

You really are a silly little man. Quite frankly if you had brains, you'd be dangerous.

I can't wait for your response, I love having a battle of wits with an unarmed person.

All my love and kisses BritinAfrica:lol:
 
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The thread of the last few post confuse me. The key to victory in war is, and always has been, logistics. Whether it is on foot, by rail, by trucks, or (as it was, to a major extent, for the Germans in WWII) by horse. Remember the old adage “Armatures study tactics - Professionals study logistics”.

To maximize the chance for victory soldiers require a sundry of support before and after battle. They have to get to the battle area, they must eat, and they need weapons (and/or ammo), medical care, etc. Otherwise they are very unlikely to be victorious and even if they are - the victory will most likely be short lived.

“In the age of mobile warfare, the battle is fought and decided by the quartermasters before the shooting begins.” Field Marshal Erwin Rommel
 
The thread of the last few post confuse me. The key to victory in war is, and always has been, logistics. Whether it is on foot, by rail, by trucks, or (as it was, to a major extent, for the Germans in WWII) by horse. Remember the old adage “Armatures study tactics - Professionals study logistics”.

To maximize the chance for victory soldiers require a sundry of support before and after battle. They have to get to the battle area, they must eat, and they need weapons (and/or ammo), medical care, etc. Otherwise they are very unlikely to be victorious and even if they are - the victory will most likely be short lived.

“In the age of mobile warfare, the battle is fought and decided by the quartermasters before the shooting begins.” Field Marshal Erwin Rommel

It seems the thread turned into the "method" of logistics, i.e. road or rail.

It was pointed out that whether rail or road convoys are used, road convoys are going to be required to transport supplies to and from the rail head, and simply touched on the problems that could be associated with rail transport.

Panzercracker or whatever his/her/it's name is, took the opportunity to try and start his/her/it's crap again and simply arguing for the sake of arguing.

And of course you are correct, that without proper a logistic organisation, wars are lost.

For an Aide Memoire of RCT Logistics http://www.movcon.org.uk/History/Documents/DID/D-MCHS 0002/D-MCHS 0002 Section 3-1-1.htm#52 I was issued a printed version of this years ago

As I said, its not as simple as many people think.
 
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Moronic arguments from a "genius" yet again.

Go read up how easy it is to fix the tracks and how long did it take for the Germans to do so (hint: less than an hour in most cases). A thoroughly bombed truck convoy can clog a road for a full day.

It's the way around. When a railroad is bombed you not only have to repair the bomb crater but you also need new rails and you won't find them in the woods nearby. They have to come by rail. This means that the railroad is completely blocked until it is reapired. When a road is bombed it is very quiqly repaired, even with manpower and shovels. There are also more roads nearby to circumvent the damaged road.
 
WW II was won by quality airplanes, fuel and trucks. Although the USSR produced absurdly exagerated numbers of cannon, tanks and bad airplanes, they kept losing against the Germans (who out maneuvered and wiped them out) until Germany lost air superiority and the Soviets had hundreds of thousands of American trucks and American fuel in the battle of Kursk. Then all hell broke loose.
Although the western front was much smaller than the eastern front, it was the western allies (including excellent Polish pilots in Poland, France, the BoB, etc,) who destroyed far more and better German planes than the Soviets ever did.
For example, while Göring had to withdraw the Stuka from Western Europe in 1940 because of unacceptable losses (so there were only 290 Stukas for Barbarossa), the Stukas (Kanonenvogel) were knocking out hundreds of Soviet tanks still in Kursk. The Germans had to send planes, tanks, men, fuel, etc, to Greece, Africa, etc, to fight the British and later the Americans. For example, they had to send crucial planes from Stalingrad to Africa in 1942 (Torch). Then the allies destroyed the incredible amount of 1,000 German planes per month (on average) in 1944, while the Soviets destroyed 400 per month that year. The allies also destroyed many tanks and men in Africa, Sicily etc, before Kursk. The allies also spent fortunes and thousands of men bombing German steel, tanks, fuel, plane, ball bearing, cannon factories, etc, Flooding huge areas, etc,
Without the hundreds of thousands of American trucks and the fuel, the red army was a sitting duck.

Ironically, although France was invaded with Soviet fuel and grain, it was a squadron of French pilots fighting in the USSR which achieved the best scores there (Normandie-Niemen). By the way among the sea of incompetent Soviet generals who sacrificed stupidly huge numbers of troops, tanks ,etc, It was the Polish generals in the red army who lost the fewest people and a Polish-descent Soviet general who performed best among the Soviets.

To see what the Soviets received you can go to the thread I just opened about production in WW II.

An example of desperate Soviet tactics:
The night witches of the women only 588th bombing squadron used the obsolete Polikarpov Po-2 linen and wood biplanes with 125 hp engines to bomb the Germans every night with a demoralizing effect . As a bomber it could carry six 50 kg (110 lb) bombs but at an excruciatingly low speed, so usually 2 to 4 bombs were carried, each crew of 2 performing several missions per night.. The pilot would often idle the engine before attacking and glide in to drop the bombs stealthily. The night witches received 23 Hero of the Soviet Union citations. One crew flew a record 18 missions in one night and by the end of the war almost all members had flown over 1,000 missions each. The group performed 23,000 missions, dropping nearly 3,000 tons of bombs. Incredibly, only 30 members died in combat between 1942 and 45. So this inexpensive, obsolete plane was put to good use by the brave night witches.
 
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Almost all of this is wrong .
During Kursk,there were NO hundred of thousands of American trucks on the east front.
The Red Army was no sitting duck :it was winning already before ONE US truck arrived on the front .
 
Just during the last quarter of 1942 (during the battle of Stalingrad, long before the battle of Kursk), Stalin received 350,000 tons of steel, 250.000 tons of aviation fuel, 60,000 trucks, 11,000 jeeps, 2 million boots, 50,000 tons of explosives, 300 Airacobras, etc, At the same time the Allies disembarked in North Africa, forcing Hitler to relocate troops, tanks and planes from the USSR. The reduced strength of the Luftwaffe in Stalingrad allowed the Soviets to gain air superiority over Stalingrad and to move troops from the eastern side of the Volga and finish off the German army, which could not be supplied by air, because of the Soviet air superiority, the bad weather and the lack of Ju-52s (many of which were also sent to Africa and promptly lost there)
 
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I have the greatest doubts on the claim that,during the last quarter of 1942,the SU received 11000 jeeps and 60000 trucks.
Following "Engines of the Red Army in WW II" ,the SU received 47000 jeeps during WWII,of which only 6823 before Stalingrad .
The same source gives the number of trucks received by the SU in WWII as 360000,of which 36865 on 30 june 1942 and 44000 between 30 june and 31 december 1943(=2 quarters !)
As the SU received 15 million boots during the war (IMHO an unlikely high figure),it is almost impossible that 2 million boots would be delivered in ONE quarter (4 years is 16 quarters)
 
A quick search in wikipedia found this:

The USSR was highly dependent on rail transportation, but the war practically shut down rail equipment production: only about 92 locomotives were produced. 2,000 locomotives and 11,000 railcars were supplied under Lend-Lease. Likewise, the Soviet air force received 18,700 aircraft, which amounted to about 14% of Soviet aircraft production (19% for military aircraft).(Kotelnokov B.P. "Using Anglo-American Aviation Equipment in USSR during WWII and its impact on Soviet )
Although most Red Army tank units were equipped with Soviet-built tanks, their logistical support was provided by hundreds of thousands of U.S.-made trucks. Indeed by 1945 nearly two-thirds of the truck strength of the Red Army was U.S.-built. Trucks such as the Dodge 3/4 ton and Studebaker 2½ ton, were easily the best trucks available in their class on either side on the Eastern Front. American shipments of telephone cable, aluminium, canned rations, and clothing were also critical. (Weeks 2004, p. 107.)
 
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This is the traditional,but one sided explanation,which is neglecting a lot of things.
About the trucks ,it is neglecting the number of trucks the Red Army had on 22 june 1941(some 200000) and the number of trucks that the SU produced in the war (some 200000).If one is comparing this to the number of LL trucks the SU received from the US (360000),the picture is not white/black,but grey.
Till 31 december 1942,80000 trucks were received.
In 1943:150000
In 1944 and 1945130000
The story is the same for the tanks:
1942:1821
1943: 888
1944:2315
1945: 814
Total:5838
OTOH,....the SU had 21000 tanks in june 1941,and produced
in 1941 (july-december):4867
in 1942:24589
in 1943:19907
in 1944:16923
in 1945:(till july):7835
Total:some 74000
The story is the same for the aircraft:while the SU received from LL 13208 US aircraft,it had on 22 june 1941 24000 aircraft,and produced some 135000 aircraft between 1941 and 1945.
The Wikipedia article is also neglecting the considerable aid from Britain and Canada ;Britain :3200 tanks,Canada :1400,Britain :4600 aircraft
The figures are from:
WW2 total:Lend Lease tanks and aircraft for Russia
Engines of the Red Army in WWII
Armchair general/rkkaww2:production of AFV's(1941-1945)
 
And about the Railways:while the SU received (from LL) 1200 locos and 11000 railroad cars,the SU had (in 1935) in stock 28000 locos and 600000 cars.
Till 1 november 1941,the Germans captured 231 locos and 2237 cars .
I have no information on the number of locos and cars on 22 june 1941.
Source :Axis History Forum com/viewtopic php?t=132150
 
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