Good Lesson in Money

[A Can of Man]

You're missing the point.
The sort of things we're talking about is beyond the POTUS.
It's about every person, every organization.
"I dare say the POTUS has more than one secretary that he relies on to send all his e-mails to the right people."
Yes, few would argue that the POTUS has less power, but that quote right there proves that you have no idea what a secretary is. Not a clue.

You're right about men issuing orders to go to war.
But why are all your references about these world matters when the motivation to do these things all start at home?
The real source, is not the top, it's the bottom. It's in the very depth of the dark human soul. The "spirit" that we celebrate... is a lie. By our very nature we are vain, jealous, greedy... because we're geared to survive when there's not enough to go around. Whether it is a man or a woman in the top position makes very little difference in this regard.

 

[Rob Henderson]

Again, I don't know jack...... Have you been on the inside of a corrupt organization where the secretary was the mastermind behind it all?



The people who make the world go to war are not people like Donald Trump or Bill Gates... Now the heads of oil companies/weapons manufacturing/government contractors, I can see having some sway in the global balance of power, but the two Steves (founders of Apple) are NOT influencing the world other than economically. And even then, their secretaries don't have enough clout to make the world turn.

 

[A Can of Man]

A secretary isn't more powerful than the POTUS, but if that's what you think a secretary is, you're badly mistaken.

The problem is not the top. Not the leaders. No that's just what you see. The key lies at the bottom. In the depth of our dark souls that we have inherited from nature. In this regard, it does not matter whether or not the leader is male or female. We all have this just to different degrees. It's very easy to say that you are above all of this but your real test comes when you are really pushed, under pressure, in danger of losing everything. That's when you know who and what you are.

The closest we can get to achieving your dream is if there's so much abundance that there's nothing left to fight over.
Unlimited land.
Unlimited water.
Unlimited food.
No winter.
No floods.
Total and complete comfort.

Even people who sing kumbaya, one world, one love go home and argue with their families.

 

[Rob Henderson]

It was only an example... I know secretaries really are extremely important to this world.

The world will never be perfect, I'm not saying that... But a lot of the bad... In fact, MOST of the bad things in this world are completely UNNECESSARY.

Example: If people who make millions and millions of dollars a year decided to forego the 5.7 million dollar mansion and donate half of that money to charity, they'd still live in a multi-million dollar home, AND they might put the search for a cure for cancer over the top. 5.7 divided by 2 is 2.8 something million... You figure a cozy home for a family of 4 (Average American family) costs about 150,000.... That's almost 20 homes PURCHASED OUTRIGHT for a homeless family. That's not them making payments, that's the house paid for in full. And they still live in a huge mansion. I've seen what you can get for 2.8 mil... It's no caddy shack.

Yet there is still poverty to a STAGGERING degree. There is still starvation everywhere in the world. There is still violence because people can't afford to feed their families, so they either rob a store or a person.


Like I said, the vast majority of bad things in the world today are completely unnecessary.

 

[A Can of Man]

It was only an example... I know secretaries really are extremely important to this world.

Explain. How are they "important?"

Example: If people who make millions and millions of dollars a year decided to forego the 5.7 million dollar mansion and donate half of that money to charity, they'd still live in a multi-million dollar home, AND they might put the search for a cure for cancer over the top. 5.7 divided by 2 is 2.8 something million... You figure a cozy home for a family of 4 (Average American family) costs about 150,000.... That's almost 20 homes PURCHASED OUTRIGHT for a homeless family. That's not them making payments, that's the house paid for in full. And they still live in a huge mansion. I've seen what you can get for 2.8 mil... It's no caddy shack.

You've just explained human nature pretty well. You're scratching the surface, but why is it that people do this? I want to hear what your explanation for this sort of behavior is.

 

[sky2979]

Uh???? a whole new thread now ay? lol...

 

[Rob Henderson]

Explain. How are they "important?"

They're normally the heart and soul of an office/department... Here in the Music Department, our secretary's name is Julie... And let me tell you something, without her, we'd be like chickens with our heads cut off. Julie keeps all the faculty schedules on her computer, updates them FOR the faculty (and with our Mac system, the changes automatically reflect on their office computers). She makes sure all the events in the department run smoothly, makes sure all roles are assigned that need to be, she files paperwork, she follows up on scholarship auditions, she sends things out on time. Like I said, without Julie, this department couldn't function.

AND she plays in the orchestra.

You've just explained human nature pretty well. You're scratching the surface, but why is it that people do this? I want to hear what your explanation for this sort of behavior is.

That I couldn't tell you. Other than the fact that I don't believe the people making all that money can't see "across the tracks." They don't realize that there is a desperate need for basic necessities, and don't really know what they could do to help.

 

[A Can of Man]

You got half the story with the secretaries because you've worked with secretaries in your department but you've never had to go through secretaries of another department. That wasn't what I was talking about but I'm not surprised you didn't get to it.
A secretary is basically your access point to getting to someone. Sure, she organizes etc., but you forgot that she's also the gate keeper. Imagine yourself outside an organization trying to get access inside for whatever reason. Maybe you need to meet the guy who runs a department but you don't know him well enough to get to him directly or maybe you rank too low to get to him directly. You've got to deal with his secretary. Show up, be polite, give a compliment and maybe even give a small gift at some point. And you'll have a priority listing on the guy's schedule when you need to be on it.
Also let's say you're a head of a department and you have a secretary. There's going to be people trying to reach you. She's going to have to be the filter that keeps the garbage out and lets the gold in. What if it's a reporter? Can't have the guy catch you off guard right? She's going to have to delay, buy some time... usually something like "he's in a meeting. Call back in about thirty minutes." And then she'll call you, tell you what happened and you'll be rehearsing what to say before the guy calls again and you're ready for him.
Also they are also your resource in that they have an extensive network too. What you can't draw upon with your own networks, if your relationship with your secretary is good, you can draw up on hers.
Organizing and planning are basically just the surface of what they do.
That's why they're not really called secretaries anymore. They're program assistants. And in this case, that wording might actually be more accurate.

Also they tend to have serious ego problems, are needy, have extremely high needs for power, have low self esteem and must be constantly babied and coddled to keep them happy and in working order. On many occasions, they are very nasty people.


As for the reason why there are people with incredible wealth trying to get more and more and more while there are people who are desperately poor.
Rich people compete against rich people. Between them, someone always has a better something. Someone has a bigger house, a more expensive car, a bigger swimming pool, a better TV... They need something bigger and better than the guys they are competing with. The poor guy starving to death on the other side of town isn't even in the picture. That's why.
Why do you think a guy who went to Brown University has a low self esteem problem? Because a guy he ridiculed like hell in high school went to Yale. He doesn't care about the guy who can't afford to go to college. That's just not a part of his life.

 

[Rob Henderson]

You got half the story with the secretaries because you've worked with secretaries in your department but you've never had to go through secretaries of another department. That wasn't what I was talking about but I'm not surprised you didn't get to it.
A secretary is basically your access point to getting to someone. Sure, she organizes etc., but you forgot that she's also the gate keeper. Imagine yourself outside an organization trying to get access inside for whatever reason. Maybe you need to meet the guy who runs a department but you don't know him well enough to get to him directly or maybe you rank too low to get to him directly. You've got to deal with his secretary. Show up, be polite, give a compliment and maybe even give a small gift at some point. And you'll have a priority listing on the guy's schedule when you need to be on it.
Also let's say you're a head of a department and you have a secretary. There's going to be people trying to reach you. She's going to have to be the filter that keeps the garbage out and lets the gold in. What if it's a reporter? Can't have the guy catch you off guard right? She's going to have to delay, buy some time... usually something like "he's in a meeting. Call back in about thirty minutes." And then she'll call you, tell you what happened and you'll be rehearsing what to say before the guy calls again and you're ready for him.
Also they are also your resource in that they have an extensive network too. What you can't draw upon with your own networks, if your relationship with your secretary is good, you can draw up on hers.
Organizing and planning are basically just the surface of what they do.
That's why they're not really called secretaries anymore. They're program assistants. And in this case, that wording might actually be more accurate.

Also they tend to have serious ego problems, are needy, have extremely high needs for power, have low self esteem and must be constantly babied and coddled to keep them happy and in working order. On many occasions, they are very nasty people.

The movie version of a secretary.

As for the reason why there are people with incredible wealth trying to get more and more and more while there are people who are desperately poor.
Rich people compete against rich people. Between them, someone always has a better something. Someone has a bigger house, a more expensive car, a bigger swimming pool, a better TV... They need something bigger and better than the guys they are competing with. The poor guy starving to death on the other side of town isn't even in the picture. That's why.
Why do you think a guy who went to Brown University has a low self esteem problem? Because a guy he ridiculed like hell in high school went to Yale. He doesn't care about the guy who can't afford to go to college. That's just not a part of his life.

And that's why I think awareness is half (if not all) the problem. If we could just make these people REALIZE that there are people robbing stores just for their basic necessities, then they might start to feel a pang or two from that little guy on the shoulder who's been stifled for so long.

 

[A Can of Man]

The movie version of a secretary.

Name a movie where they're portrayed like that. Because I can't think of one.
I've worked with many PAs and so has my wife. And that's what we've learned about them. Never mind. After years of experience in this field, I'm sure you still know far more because your PA plays in an orchistra. So what? We had one that was a model in Slovakia.

Rob, those people who live excessively lavishly but don't feel like it's enough know about those who are robbing for necessities. They don't care about them because it's irrelevent to their reality.
You can tell them all you want. They might feel moved for a day or two, but when they come in contact with their life again, it all goes out the window and the race for the next big acquisition begins. Every now and then (very rarely... maybe one in a hundred thousand or something) there is a guy who gives it up. But as a rule, no. They don't care. Does an NBA basketball player give a damn about middle school basketball? In most cases, no. Same deal. Usually when they pretend to give a damn, it's publicity. But rich folks have that too. It's called charity. Where they can pretend to give a damn, but not really.

 

[Rob Henderson]

Name a movie where they're portrayed like that. Because I can't think of one.
I've worked with many PAs and so has my wife. And that's what we've learned about them. Never mind. After years of experience in this field, I'm sure you still know far more because your PA plays in an orchistra. So what? We had one that was a model in Slovakia.

I was only joking man. I've no doubt of the truth of what you said about them....

Rob, those people who live excessively lavishly but don't feel like it's enough know about those who are robbing for necessities. They don't care about them because it's irrelevent to their reality.
You can tell them all you want. They might feel moved for a day or two, but when they come in contact with their life again, it all goes out the window and the race for the next big acquisition begins. Every now and then (very rarely... maybe one in a hundred thousand or something) there is a guy who gives it up. But as a rule, no. They don't care. Does an NBA basketball player give a damn about middle school basketball? In most cases, no. Same deal. Usually when they pretend to give a damn, it's publicity. But rich folks have that too. It's called charity. Where they can pretend to give a damn, but not really.

And that's where I think higher taxes should come into play. I think if you're making enough to give 20 families a home, then you either should, or you should pay higher taxes, so that at least some of your money goes to someone besides yourself.

 

[A Can of Man]

Rob, I know you mean well but let's take a look at the taxes.
Yes I believe that taxes are a reality.
Schooling from K-12 should be free.
Subsidize medical care (better insurance).
etc.
But you can't just throw free money at people or else you're simply rewarding complacency. You can invest in opportunities for them, but if they don't take it, it's their own damned problem. Imagine you just worked your ass off to get that house and some lazy guy who lives down the street got one as well for being poor. That just makes you a sucker.
Also, remember that you earned that money. You worked your ass off to get it. If you say you don't want to pay anymore than you really have to to keep the country going, you have a point. And right now, anyone who earns around 100,000 per year or more lose almost half their money to taxes. Just exactly how much more do you want to tax them?
And I'm not one of those folks but yeah, they did work hard to get there. Many of them have worked far harder than us.

 

[BillDixon]

This is what a TRILLION dollars looks like...WOW

If you haven't seen this already you have to check this out. "What does a Trillion Dollars Look Like". I was TOTALLY floored. It's on "the political simpleton" (first link), bottom right hand side or go to the sececond link I posted below.

Pass this one along and give everyone you know a reality check. What a sin to pass this debt on to our children and grandchildren.

Bill D.


http://www.politicalsimpleton.com/


http://www.politicalsimpleton.com/MACK/ONE_TRILLION.html

 

[Rob Henderson]

Rob, I know you mean well but let's take a look at the taxes.
Yes I believe that taxes are a reality.
Schooling from K-12 should be free.
Subsidize medical care (better insurance).
etc.
But you can't just throw free money at people or else you're simply rewarding complacency. You can invest in opportunities for them, but if they don't take it, it's their own damned problem. Imagine you just worked your ass off to get that house and some lazy guy who lives down the street got one as well for being poor. That just makes you a sucker.
Also, remember that you earned that money. You worked your ass off to get it. If you say you don't want to pay anymore than you really have to to keep the country going, you have a point. And right now, anyone who earns around 100,000 per year or more lose almost half their money to taxes. Just exactly how much more do you want to tax them?
And I'm not one of those folks but yeah, they did work hard to get there. Many of them have worked far harder than us.

I understand... The whole buying a family a house is an extreme example... It was more for the fact that that's how much money these people have for acting, and they still don't do anything about it.

This is where my beliefs in a Capitalist/Communist state come into play. It's a bit of an oxymoron, but I think incorporating some of the ideas of communism (like the idea that everyone helps everyone else) would be good for this world. The simple fact of the matter is that people need to get over their worldly possessions and learn that helping a fellow human being is much more rewarding.

100,000 wasn't what I had in mind. I was thinking more along the lines of those making enough to have multiple homes, cars, etc.


This is a SMALL glimpse of some more famous actors/actresses and their salaries...

http://ezinearticles.com/?How-Much-Movie-Stars-Make?-A-Before-After-Comparison&id=215638

You're telling me they couldn't afford to be taxed a little more than someone who makes $50,000 a year?!

 

[A Can of Man]

Yeah but they earned it.
Like I said, the guys who earn over 100,000 lose nearly half of what they earn. How much more are we going to tax them? And if we tax them more, doesn't it mean that they should have a bigger say in how the country is run? Maybe they will argue that their vote should count twice or three times as much as other people's. Think about it, when we vote, we're also voting on how our tax money will be spent. If you pay more, you should have a bigger voice.

 

[Rob Henderson]

Yeah but they earned it.
Like I said, the guys who earn over 100,000 lose nearly half of what they earn. How much more are we going to tax them? And if we tax them more, doesn't it mean that they should have a bigger say in how the country is run? Maybe they will argue that their vote should count twice or three times as much as other people's. Think about it, when we vote, we're also voting on how our tax money will be spent. If you pay more, you should have a bigger voice.

In my opinion, the basic human plight should[/I be more important than some paper that only has as much value as we give to it.

 

[A Can of Man]

That paper is not just a piece of "paper."
It's a reciept that states the value of the work you have given to society. Yes, some of us do good work but for less money and there are many motivations behind that but generally that is the rule. That is what paper money really stands for. Like in every game there are ways to cheat, but that is how it generally works.
Don't think of money as money. Think of it as the thing that replaced bringing your cow to the market. When we try to screw around with this fact, economic melt downs like the ones we're facing now occur. You can break the rules, but only for so long and at the end, when reality sinks in, you pay the price.
Basic human plight is important but so is self responsibility. You have a responsibility to yourself and to society to be a useful member of society that can survive without this sort of help. If you f*ck up and don't have a roof over your head, people are not obligated to help you. Everyone pays for their mistakes, so why shouldn't the guy who should have paid attention in school years ago?
You realize that there have been numerous programs to get homeless people off the street don't you? Not the shelters really but programs to make them productive individuals. But they have been failures. Why? Because homeless people can survive that way and in fact, they kind of prefer being homeless than having to look after themselves. They don't have their sh*t together. They don't have my sympathy.

 

[Rob Henderson]

That paper is not just a piece of "paper."
It's a reciept that states the value of the work you have given to society. Yes, some of us do good work but for less money and there are many motivations behind that but generally that is the rule. That is what paper money really stands for. Like in every game there are ways to cheat, but that is how it generally works.
Don't think of money as money. Think of it as the thing that replaced bringing your cow to the market. When we try to screw around with this fact, economic melt downs like the ones we're facing now occur. You can break the rules, but only for so long and at the end, when reality sinks in, you pay the price.

Still... It only has as much value as we say it does. At the end of the day, it's still just paper with ink printed on it. Just like cows only had as much value as we put on them when we traded livestock. Material worth is relative; no matter what the medium.

Basic human plight is important but so is self responsibility. You have a responsibility to yourself and to society to be a useful member of society that can survive without this sort of help. If you f*ck up and don't have a roof over your head, people are not obligated to help you. Everyone pays for their mistakes, so why shouldn't the guy who should have paid attention in school years ago?
You realize that there have been numerous programs to get homeless people off the street don't you? Not the shelters really but programs to make them productive individuals. But they have been failures. Why? Because homeless people can survive that way and in fact, they kind of prefer being homeless than having to look after themselves. They don't have their sh*t together. They don't have my sympathy.

You're right. A lot of homeless people really don't care... It's like the mountain is too big to climb once you've fallen off. But not everyone is like that... Sometimes, sh*t happens. Like AZ_Infantry... I'd be willing to bet he would have a job if he could help it. It's those people I wish I could help more... No, people aren't obligated to help other people, but it's the idea that people should do it ANYWAY. Regardless of whether or not they HAVE to do it. Don't help to have your name in the paper, to have an award made in your name, or for the recognition... Do it to help a fellow man. If he blows the $20 you give him on liquor, that's his problem, and his abuse of your kindness will be atoned for in heaven. But YOU still did the right thing, you helped a fellow brother in need.

 

[A Can of Man]

Not if you have your own people to take care of, and you know that $20 feeds your kid for four or five days.
Let's see. Buy food for my kid for 5 days vs give it to a stranger who will most likely blow it on alcohol. I elect food for my kid.

Rob, try getting a house. Really try and then tell me if we just make the values up. There are some fluctuations depending on how much the owner calls it but after a few months the actual value sets in. Like I said, when we attempt to screw with that, the system fails for a while and we're going to be where we are right now.

We are not obligated to help but yes as people we do find the time to do so but it should be at our choosing. I have the right to choose who to help and who not to help. Isn't that also one's own freedom?

 

[Rob Henderson]

Absolutely. Do what you want.