Global Cooling, Global Warming, Acid Rain, what is next?

MontyB's statement nicely sums up the situation

On the whole I completely agree with the argument that global warming is a natural cyclic phenomenon but I also believe that man's actions have increased the extremes to which that cyclic pattern now reaches.

Clearly it's possible to dig up some conspiracy theory from some special interest group, but the sooner people realise this is here to stay the sooner we can reduce the impact, although I am cynical if people will change, as indicated by the views of this thread.

Incidentally.

A meeting in Washington of global political leaders has reached a new agreement on tackling climate change.
The forum's closing statement said man-made climate change was now "beyond doubt".
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6364663.stm
 
Out of interest do you believe man has had no impact on the environment?

On the whole I completely agree with the argument that global warming is a natural cyclic phenomenon but I also believe that man's actions have increased the extremes to which that cyclic pattern now reaches.

Maybe, maybe not.....

Think about the first law of thermodynamics and let's not forget that a single Volcano eruption puts out more greenhouse gases then human kind could even fathom....

You know what I find interesting the news media has been reluctant to talk about some of the record cold temperatures we have been having like how Virgina may have the coldest month of February every recorded in history...HOLY SIT

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In 2001 November and December where the coldest two months ever recorded in the history of the USA
http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories/s557.htm
 
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Maybe, maybe not.....

Think about the first law of thermodynamics and let's not forget that a single Volcano eruption puts out more greenhouse gases then human kind could even fathom....

You know what I find interesting the news media has been reluctant to talk about some of the record cold temperatures we have been having like how Virgina may have the coldest month of February every recorded in history...HOLY SIT

-edit
In 2001 November and December where the coldest two months ever recorded in the history of the USA
http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories/s557.htm

I think you are overlooking the very premise of your argument that this is a "natural cycle" ie it gets both hot and cold.
I am seeing a lot of selective arguments from both sides on this on one hand we have people telling us there can't be global warming because it was cold in 2001 and then have the other side claiming the end of the world because they got a major sunburn in 2004.

I am also doubtful that the laws of thermodynamics apply in this case as no one is arguing that energy is being created or destroyed the argument appears to be that it is being transfered into something harmful which is perfectly within those laws.

As far as the volcano analogies go thats a double edged sword as well, if you look at earth as an enclosed system we are not adding anything that wasn't there in the first place which would indicate that our presence should have little effect. However if you then remove or damage the bulk of the natural clean up tools (rain forests and oceans) then we must have an affect as the natural recovery time that existed even 300 years ago would have been greater than it is now.
 
I will agree with the destruction of our rain forest is a very bad thing and needs to be stopped. The rain forest is some of the largest natural filtration system we have.

What I was getting at with the thermodynamics was the closed system ideology. I mean technically nothing is man made...

What I am getting at is that our focus seems to be on the wrong aspects of how we could be causing a problem. And using ethonal or electric plug in cars is not going to solve the problem it is just transferring the source of pollution...

And again on top of it all the earths system is soooooo complex it is not just a simple no brainer...

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The laws of thermodynamics apply to how the world exists and works silly ;)

But looking at the data it seems we would be closer to the middle point of a glaciation cycle (the warmer period).
 
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Even IF it is the result of human activity it is too late to do anything unless someone is advocating the use of the neutron bomb in certain overpopulated areas. By the time the tech comes online even IF people are willing to forego their creature comforts the damage has been done. We can not stop this cycle so might as well buy a piece of land on higher ground and enjoy the friggin show.
 
I will agree with the destruction of our rain forest is a very bad thing and needs to be stopped. The rain forest is some of the largest natural filtration system we have.

Oddly enough we would be far better off saving the oceans as they are the largest filtration systems we have.


What I am getting at is that our focus seems to be on the wrong aspects of how we could be causing a problem. And using ethonal or electric plug in cars is not going to solve the problem it is just transferring the source of pollution...

I am not sure the current plan is designed to solve the problem but more to control the problem in the short term with the minimum of disruption while a more permanent solution is obtained hence the emphasis on alternative fuels such as Ethanol, Methanol, Butanol and Electric I don't think anyone sees these as anything more than stop gap measures to buy time.
 
With all that aside we also have to figure out how we can keep the world from slowing down, the magnetic poles from disappearing or flipping, the sun from burning out, the magma in the earths core distributed evenly so as not to cause the rotational axis of the earth to change which applies to all the above....
 
With all that aside we also have to figure out how we can keep the world from slowing down, the magnetic poles from disappearing or flipping, the sun from burning out, the magma in the earths core distributed evenly so as not to cause the rotational axis of the earth to change which applies to all the above....


I think you are now diverting the argument.
None of the points you list are within mans control, the environment and its effect on the global warming/cooling cycle is.
 
I think you are now diverting the argument.
None of the points you list are within mans control, the environment and its effect on the global warming/cooling cycle is.

Those things I listed all play a key role in the sustainable atmosphere of the earth.

That is what I have been trying to get at...But you proved your total lack of complete understanding by saying that we can control the weather ;)

Go back and look over all the NASA source on our atmosphere I provided...
 
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Those things I listed all play a key role in the sustainable atmosphere of the earth.

That is what I have been trying to get at...But you proved your total lack of complete understanding by saying that we can control the weather ;)

Go back and look over all the NASA source on our atmosphere I provided...

No offense but I really don't think the sun burning out is on our list of top priorities maybe in 4 billion (and that should give us a good billion years to work on it) years from now it will be but not right now, if we are looking for more pressing problems perhaps we should deal with the 65 million year extinction coefficient first?

Incidently I never claimed we could control the weather I claimed we could play a major role in controlling the environment which in turn affects global warming/cooling.

But since you appear to be of subject matter we can happily leave it where it is.
 
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I don't agree with you very often Monty but you've got my backing here.

Although the sun burning out does worry me as it will make it very dark and by then I will be a pensioner, the light bill will be a killer. I guess I'll have to buy a good torch.
 


I think you are now being a little selective in your evidence, there is no argument that global warming/cooling is a natural cyclic event just as many solar events are cyclic and we already know solar bodies affect earth events.

Now since we have no control over solar events how about we fix the things we do have control over such as the environment rather than perpetually trying to beat around the bush rehashing things we already know.

So whats next an article on volcanic eruptions on Io showing that continuous release of SO2 into the atmosphere has no effect on global warming/cooling?
 
I think you are now being a little selective in your evidence, there is no argument that global warming/cooling is a natural cyclic event just as many solar events are cyclic and we already know solar bodies affect earth events.

Now since we have no control over solar events how about we fix the things we do have control over such as the environment rather than perpetually trying to beat around the bush rehashing things we already know.

So whats next an article on volcanic eruptions on Io showing that continuous release of SO2 into the atmosphere has no effect on global warming/cooling?

What if that is wasting our time and efforts?

What if what we are doing is not impacting earth as much as certain groups would like you to think....

Furthermore I am not being selective I could spend the entire day pointing out other examples of similar ideas...This is not anything new this is just what doesn't fit into certain groups agendas and therefore is not pumped into your brain via the tele....

What's next you are going to hear the pop???
 
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What if that is wasting our time and efforts?

What if what we are doing is not impacting earth as much as certain groups would like you to think....

Then shouldnt we be trying to prove things one way or another rather than continually diverting peoples attention with meaningless irrelevant issues that are beyond our influence?


Furthermore I am not being selective I could spend the entire day pointing out other examples of similar ideas...This is not anything new this is just what doesn't fit into certain groups agendas and therefore is not pumped into your brain via the tele....

What's next you are going to hear the pop???

Yes and I can match every one of your points with an equally one sided argument from other sources.

To argue that solar events may be affecting the earth is pointless as we have known that this has happened ever since people hung out at places like Stonehenge ploting the seasons and that the moon affected the tides therefore it is also arguable that these solar events are also cyclic and therefore have always been part of the equation.
 
Then shouldnt we be trying to prove things one way or another rather than continually diverting peoples attention with meaningless irrelevant issues that are beyond our influence?




Yes and I can match every one of your points with an equally one sided argument from other sources.

To argue that solar events may be affecting the earth is pointless as we have known that this has happened ever since people hung out at places like Stonehenge ploting the seasons and that the moon affected the tides therefore it is also arguable that these solar events are also cyclic and therefore have always been part of the equation.

And therefore maybe it is out of our control and has nothing to do with us, I have lost what exactly you are trying to say.

All I know is that when the climates change and life throws more things at us I will still be hear doing my job designing sustainable environments for humans to live, work, and play in all in a responsible manner that impacts our environment to the least we know of.

Few more article that where brought to my attention that I would like to share

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...ogy.html?in_article_id=440049&in_page_id=1965

http://www.channel4.com/science/microsites/G/great_global_warming_swindle/index.html

We are dooooooooooooooooooomed

Ah the problems of stupidity...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/03/11/ngreen211.xml
 
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Best movie line I have heard in a long time strikes me as appropriate at this juncture...

"How's your mother?"
"She's on the way out."
"We all are, act accordingly."
 
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