This is getting out of hand. - Page 9




 
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This is getting out of hand.
 
April 11th, 2012  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
This is getting out of hand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
I would suggest that you are adopting one of the worst statistical symptoms, paralysis by analysis.

We can sit here and produce page after page, document after document that counters each others opinions and claim that there are lies, damn lies and statistics but none of this solves the problem, nor is it essentially accurate to argue that it is caused by media or socio-economic reasons because every country has the same media exposure and the same socio-economic problems but not the same shooting spree problem.

I still maintain the problem is one of perception, I find it hard to believe so many people feel so afraid in the their own country that they need to carry weapons but there is a belief that carrying a gun makes you safe when it doesn't, carrying a concealed weapon makes you no less likely to be shot than not carrying one because for it to be a deterrent then it has to be visible and to use a weapon as a means of defence requires that you give up the right of first strike so on the whole the safety argument is ludicrous.
Wrong, the whole Western hemisphere has not the same socio-economic problems (the safety net) the media in the US is depicting the shooting sprees, this create a fear, which is not rational, because they are rare events. People have a problem with imaginable threats and real threats.
How is the legislation in New Zeeland about firearms?
April 11th, 2012  
Yossarian
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk
Wrong, the whole Western hemisphere has not the same socio-economic problems (the safety net) the media in the US is depicting the shooting sprees, this create a fear, which is not rational, because they are rare events. People have a problem with imaginable threats and real threats.

Maybe that fear triggers a boost in firearm sales? Although personally I don't but I am sure many media recepticals out there see this reporting trend on such violence and feel compelled to go out and buy a hand gun for their own "protection".
April 11th, 2012  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian
Maybe that fear triggers a boost in firearm sales? Although personally I don't but I am sure many media recepticals out there see this reporting trend on such violence and feel compelled to go out and buy a hand gun for their own "protection".
I think it does, yes. When the data from FBI is very clear, the amount of violent crimes are declining in the US, the media gives another picture, when you see the news, you would think the opposite
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This is getting out of hand.
April 11th, 2012  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk
Wrong, the whole Western hemisphere has not the same socio-economic problems (the safety net) the media in the US is depicting the shooting sprees, this create a fear, which is not rational, because they are rare events. People have a problem with imaginable threats and real threats.
How is the legislation in New Zeeland about firearms?
I don't agree, it is not the media pulling the trigger and if you and I (as well as 99.5% of the population) can watch a movie, play a video game or survive the nightly News without the need to go kill half a dozen people then it is not the media that is the problem.

To blame the media is nothing short of abdicating responsibility which is one of the main symptoms of this problem.

As for legislation on New Zealand firearms law, it is on the web you will have to find it as I do not have the time but I will say that I have every category of license they can issue with the exception of a dealers license which I do not need.

I will now be leaving the conversation for 3 or 4 days as I have 20 minutes to get to the airport.

April 11th, 2012  
George
 
I suspect most murder victims felt reasonably safe not too long before the slaying occured.
April 11th, 2012  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
I don't agree, it is not the media pulling the trigger and if you and I (as well as 99.5% of the population) can watch a movie, play a video game or survive the nightly News without the need to go kill half a dozen people then it is not the media that is the problem.

To blame the media is nothing short of abdicating responsibility which is one of the main symptoms of this problem.

As for legislation on New Zealand firearms law, it is on the web you will have to find it as I do not have the time but I will say that I have every category of license they can issue with the exception of a dealers license which I do not need.

I will now be leaving the conversation for 3 or 4 days as I have 20 minutes to get to the airport.

Have a nice flight, but you are drawing the wrong conclusion when media is the tool people are using to see what happens in the country, when the information about what they are saying can be very wrong or at least very misleading
April 11th, 2012  
Yossarian
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk
Have a nice flight, but you are drawing the wrong conclusion when media is the tool people are using to see what happens in the country, when the information about what they are saying can be very wrong or at least very misleading

Ironically I find the media industry in the U.S. on par with the operation of a typical semi automatic handgun.

You load up a set of related stories on a certain topic of news (like ammunition loaded into a magazine).

Pull back the action to chamber a round (broadcast the first set of the news on the nightly broadcast). Then remove any present saftey mechanism, then proceed to aim and fire. (Tune in at 11.)

Just like machine gunning the same trendy coverage all over Ipads and Smart Tvs everywhere. Throw in some nifty stastistics from "experts" nobody has ever heard of (like an off brand speed loader) and put all this "information" into a 5 minute bit with 2 minutes and 30 seconds for commericals.

Then there you go , you have successfully massacred the facts.

Maybe there are more correlations then I thought.
April 11th, 2012  
George
 
Such as talking about semi auto assault rifles while showing a film of a machine gun firing....
April 12th, 2012  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian
Ironically I find the media industry in the U.S. on par with the operation of a typical semi automatic handgun.

You load up a set of related stories on a certain topic of news (like ammunition loaded into a magazine).

Pull back the action to chamber a round (broadcast the first set of the news on the nightly broadcast). Then remove any present saftey mechanism, then proceed to aim and fire. (Tune in at 11.)

Just like machine gunning the same trendy coverage all over Ipads and Smart Tvs everywhere. Throw in some nifty stastistics from "experts" nobody has ever heard of (like an off brand speed loader) and put all this "information" into a 5 minute bit with 2 minutes and 30 seconds for commericals.

Then there you go , you have successfully massacred the facts.

Maybe there are more correlations then I thought.
I have sometimes been thinking people need to be taught to watch the news. The majority of the people accept what the news are showing and the facts they are giving. When we have shooting spree, people are seeing this and many will think they are threaten by the event because they can relate to the event and it might result in a trip the local arms dealer. When the statistic from the FBI and the Department of Justice is showing a decline, the majority of people will not start to control the information at the best source available. This is a huge problem, the third power (the media) has huge responsibility, and they fail quite often with this. The majority of the weapon owners in the US will never create a problem; there are few elements which will create problems. These few will influence the behavior of millions. To change this response, then we need to change the basic human behavior, which is much easier said than done.
April 12th, 2012  
BritinBritain
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
I don't agree, it is not the media pulling the trigger and if you and I (as well as 99.5% of the population) can watch a movie, play a video game or survive the nightly News without the need to go kill half a dozen people then it is not the media that is the problem.

To blame the media is nothing short of abdicating responsibility which is one of the main symptoms of this problem.
It was because TV stations showed an edited version of the video of the cops beating the crap out of Rodney King and not showing King attacking a police officer, had a direct responsibility for the riots in LA that followed, especially when the jury found the policemen involved not guilty after watching the whole video. Recent studies have found by people more qualified then you or I, that the TV coverage was directly to blame for the LA riots

The riots in UK recently spread from Tottenham in London to all over the UK thanks to TV coverage. IF the riots had not been shown on TV or even reported in the press, would the riots have happened elsewhere? I don't think so.


Quote:
Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk
Have a nice flight, but you are drawing the wrong conclusion when media is the tool people are using to see what happens in the country, when the information about what they are saying can be very wrong or at least very misleading
The biggest problem with all media, TV or the press, they don't like to ruin a good story with the truth.

Before I retired I use to give firearm training, from basic up to advanced standard for security guards. One of the biggest problems I faced was people's perception of firearms thanks to Hollywood bullsh!te. Drumming that crap out of them was a nightmare, my best students without exception were women, they admitted they knew nothing and "LISTENED" to what I was telling them, blokes on the other hand "thought" they knew it all. I would tell and show someone how to hold a semi auto pistol "once" the correct way, if they held it with the weak hand on top of the strong hand, I'd let them fire it and when the slide came back and ripped a chunk out of their weak hand, my usual comment was, "Perhaps now you will listen." Nothing like pain and a bit of blood to get a point across.
 


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