This is getting out of hand. - Page 7




 
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This is getting out of hand.
 
April 10th, 2012  
Yossarian
 
 
This is getting out of hand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BritinAfrica
Remember the LA riots? TV stations only televised the police beating the crap out of Rodney King, they didn't show King attacking a police officer. The jury saw the whole video which led to a not guilty verdict.

If it bleeds it reads, people today seem to negate the fact that major media outlets are not SERVICES they are BUSINESSES, they need to make a profit like everybody else.


Lastly I agree 110 % about there being no tangible sense of consequences for young people today. Children are allowed to roam society without fear of consequence. And a prime if not leading example of this can be seen in American Society today.

I understand this and it has already been established as a major possible source contributing to the problem discussed in this thread.

I am not shooting anyone down who mentions this, as I would like to state that I was looking for all types of opinions including this one. And I will openly admit on this one I agree.
April 10th, 2012  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk
Interesting, I have never heard this before. I assume the people in this city got proper training and education to handle weapons (including the safety and storage of them). Weapons don't kill, the people holding them do. I have from time to time been thinking about the legal access to firearms, we cannot do much about the illegal market. What do you think if a "new" gun owner when (s)he is buying a gun, they need to have a chat with a psychologist first to see if they are in a mental stage to have a gun. It isn't complete water proof, but better than nothing. Just a thought
No they didn't and the figures posted are a little misleading because they are effectively comparing a small town with large cities and saying look the crime is lower here therefore we are right, when you compare Kennesaw to other towns of similar size across the USA it is not the paragon of virtue they would have you believe...

Basically it would appear that Kennesaw is not even safer than most of the towns and cities in Georgia.


Quote:
The crime rate in Kennesaw is considerably higher than the national average across all communities in America from the largest to the smallest, although at 25 crimes per one thousand residents, it is not among the communities with the very highest crime rate. The chance of becoming a victim of either violent or property crime in Kennesaw is 1 in 41. Based on FBI crime data, Kennesaw is not one of the safest communities in America. Relative to Georgia, Kennesaw has a crime rate that is higher than 50% of the state's cities and towns of all sizes.

How does the crime rate in Kennesaw compare to similar sized communities across America? When NeighborhoodScout compared Kennesaw with other communities its size, we found that the crime rate was near the average for all other communities of similar size. So, whether Kennesaw's crime rate is high or low compared to all places in the US, when we control for population size and compare it to places that are similar in size, it is near the middle of the pack in crime rate; not much more or less dangerous, and about what we would expect from the statistics.

The crime data that NeighborhoodScout used for this analysis are the seven offenses from the uniform crime reports, collected by the FBI from 17,000 local law enforcement agencies, and include both violent and property crimes, combined.

Now let us turn to take a look at how Kennesaw does for violent crimes specifically, and then how it does for property crimes. This is important because the overall crime rate can be further illuminated by understanding if violent crime or property crimes (or both) are the major contributors to the general rate of crime in Kennesaw.

For Kennesaw, NeighborhoodScout found that the violent crime rate is well below the national average for all communities of all population sizes. Violent crimes such as assault, rape, murder and armed robbery happen less often in Kennesaw than in most of America. One's chance of becoming a victim of a violent crime here is one in 1295, which is a violent crime rate of 1 per one thousand inhabitants.

NeighborhoodScout's analysis also reveals that Kennesaw's rate for property crime is 24 per one thousand population. This makes Kennesaw a place where there is an above average chance of becoming a victim of a property crime, when compared to all other communities in America of all population sizes. Property crimes are motor vehicle theft, arson, larceny, and burglary. Your chance of becoming a victim of any of these crimes in Kennesaw is one in 42.
http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ga/...aw/crime/#data
April 11th, 2012  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian
If it bleeds it reads, people today seem to negate the fact that major media outlets are not SERVICES they are BUSINESSES, they need to make a profit like everybody else.


Lastly I agree 110 % about there being no tangible sense of consequences for young people today. Children are allowed to roam society without fear of consequence. And a prime if not leading example of this can be seen in American Society today.

I understand this and it has already been established as a major possible source contributing to the problem discussed in this thread.

I am not shooting anyone down who mentions this, as I would like to state that I was looking for all types of opinions including this one. And I will openly admit on this one I agree.
That's the reason for why the yellow media is totally worthless as a source. The only thing even worse would be wikipedia or youtube
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This is getting out of hand.
April 11th, 2012  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
No they didn't and the figures posted are a little misleading because they are effectively comparing a small town with large cities and saying look the crime is lower here therefore we are right, when you compare Kennesaw to other towns of similar size across the USA it is not the paragon of virtue they would have you believe...

Basically it would appear that Kennesaw is not even safer than most of the towns and cities in Georgia.




http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ga/...aw/crime/#data
There is a statistical problem when the website compares this city with the rest of Georgia, the statistic will be problematic, if they had compared the city with a city with a similar size had been much better. Large n studies can be tricky and you can show what you want. The best way would be to take at least ten cities with the similar size and then compare them
April 11th, 2012  
MontyB
 
 
Exactly but this same problem exists with the original argument as well which is what I have been trying to point out in my comparison posts, but as with most things people accept data they want to believe no matter how right or wrong it may be and you know what they say repeat a lie often enough and it will become fact.
April 11th, 2012  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
Exactly but this same problem exists with the original argument as well which is what I have been trying to point out in my comparison posts, but as with most things people accept data they want to believe no matter how right or wrong it may be and you know what they say repeat a lie often enough and it will become fact.

True so true, to make a statistical study even better would be compare this city with all cities of this size across the whole US, but then we must consider another important variable, the access to guns, which is different from state to state. The statistical investigations normally ignore other facts as well, the demographic in the area, the unemployment figures, the access to the law enforcement, to mention a few, they can be added to a graph, but can be more tricky to make reliable conclusions and if people are not used with graphs...So to do this is to investigate all the variables and from the result from each and every one draw a conclusion. We have a saying here; statistic, statistic, and a damn lie
April 11th, 2012  
RayManKiller3
 
That is the reason I call BS when people try to bring D.C statistics while claiming gun-restrictions leads to more crime. During the time D.C was murder capital of U.S, the crack epidemic was also driving up violent crime. Not to mention it is near impossible to enforce a complete ban on firearms when there are states one can go to, to acquire them, as they don't need to hop states like they hop countries.


There are so many variables to consider (as you guys point out): Size of the cities, how diverse the cities are, laws of firearms in each city, poverty levels of the cities, education levels of the cities, etc.

Too many people abuse statistics as they are poorly done.

I do not believe violent movies/games are much of a cause in increasing crime. It may have some effects on the way a crime plays out, but I do not believe it actually cause it otherwise we would have way more crime.


Society as a whole has a lowered standard... Bad idols, stupid t.v shows (pregnant at 16, I mean seriously? Getting pregnant at a time your not ready gets you a spot in a show? Makes me wonder who the audience is), being fatherless or motherless. I believe U.S is devolving into a nation of those who claim everything as a right and enact on things as there if there is no consequence. I am hoping it is just that I am seeing the minority of U.S.
April 11th, 2012  
BritinBritain
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
No they didn't and the figures posted are a little misleading because they are effectively comparing a small town with large cities and saying look the crime is lower here therefore we are right, when you compare Kennesaw to other towns of similar size across the USA it is not the paragon of virtue they would have you believe...

Basically it would appear that Kennesaw is not even safer than most of the towns and cities in Georgia.
The graphs below are showing the crime rate in Kennesaw compared to the rest of the US,

The city violent crime rate for Kennesaw in 2009 was lower than the national violent crime rate average by 78.87% and the city property crime rate in Kennesaw was lower than the national property crime rate average by 39.33%.

In 2009 the city violent crime rate in Kennesaw was lower than the violent crime rate in Georgia by 78.7% and the city property crime rate in Kennesaw was lower than the property crime rate in Georgia by 49.76%

It needs to be pointed out that the site you quote (neighbourhoodscout) is in the business of selling property and needs to be treated with suspicion.

http://www.movoto.com/neighborhood/g...esaw/30144.htm

Quote:
Originally Posted by RayManKiller3
That is the reason I call BS when people try to bring D.C statistics while claiming gun-restrictions leads to more crime. During the time D.C was murder capital of U.S, the crack epidemic was also driving up violent crime. Not to mention it is near impossible to enforce a complete ban on firearms when there are states one can go to, to acquire them, as they don't need to hop states like they hop countries.
Perhaps you can tell me why crime dropped in DC like a lead balloon once the handgun ban was lifted. I agree drug problems do lead to an increase in crime, druggies committing assaults, home invasions and so on to get money for their next fix.

It is impossible to ban guns, its only the law abiding that abides by such bans, criminals will get them no matter what.
April 11th, 2012  
BritinBritain
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk
Interesting, I have never heard this before. I assume the people in this city got proper training and education to handle weapons (including the safety and storage of them). Weapons don't kill, the people holding them do. I have from time to time been thinking about the legal access to firearms, we cannot do much about the illegal market. What do you think if a "new" gun owner when (s)he is buying a gun, they need to have a chat with a psychologist first to see if they are in a mental stage to have a gun. It isn't complete water proof, but better than nothing. Just a thought
Someone could be the most laid back person on the planet and could pass any examination by any psychologist, but what happens if he comes home and see's his wife/daughter being raped and murdered?

This is from the http://www.usacarry.com/florida_conc...formation.html

Florida Concealed Carry Permit Information

Does Florida issue concealed carry permits?
Yes, Florida is a Shall Issue state and will issue concealed carry permits to Residents and Non-Residents that meet the state requirements for a Florida concealed carry permit.

What does a Florida Concealed Carry Permit look like?


Florida Concealed Carry Permit
Who issues Florida Concealed Carry Permits?
Department of Agriculture
Division of Licensing
Post Office Box 6687
Tallahassee, Florida 32314-6687
Phone: (850) 245-5691
Fax: (850) 245-5655

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/index.html
NICS/Background Check:
There is a background check but not NICS. Your permit is currently issued by the Department of Agriculture which is not a law enforcement agency, and therefore cannot do the NICS check required by federal law. Only “law enforcement agencies” can access NICS, and therefore the federal exemption that normally applies to concealed weapon permits, does not apply to those issued in Florida.

Permit Valid For:
Permit valid for seven (7) years from date of issue.

Processing Time:

Cost:
$117

Requirements:
All paperwork for your permit may be requested via mail for free:

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/FOR...equest790.html
1. You must be 21 to get a conceled carry permit.
2. Have a passport-style, color photograph made.
3. Get verification of training that satisfies the training requirement. NRA, DD-14, state training course, etc. . Persons serving in the United States Armed Forces may submit a copy of their Military ID Card to satisfy the training requirement.
April 11th, 2012  
George
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BritinAfrica
Someone could be the most laid back person on the planet and could pass any examination by any psychologist, but what happens if he comes home and see's his wife/daughter being raped and murdered?

This is from the http://www.usacarry.com/florida_conc...formation.html

Florida Concealed Carry Permit Information

Does Florida issue concealed carry permits?
Yes, Florida is a Shall Issue state and will issue concealed carry permits to Residents and Non-Residents that meet the state requirements for a Florida concealed carry permit.

What does a Florida Concealed Carry Permit look like?


Florida Concealed Carry Permit
Who issues Florida Concealed Carry Permits?
Department of Agriculture
Division of Licensing
Post Office Box 6687
Tallahassee, Florida 32314-6687
Phone: (850) 245-5691
Fax: (850) 245-5655

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/index.html
NICS/Background Check:
There is a background check but not NICS. Your permit is currently issued by the Department of Agriculture which is not a law enforcement agency, and therefore cannot do the NICS check required by federal law. Only “law enforcement agencies” can access NICS, and therefore the federal exemption that normally applies to concealed weapon permits, does not apply to those issued in Florida.

Permit Valid For:
Permit valid for seven (7) years from date of issue.

Processing Time:

Cost:
$117

Requirements:
All paperwork for your permit may be requested via mail for free:

http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/FOR...equest790.html
1. You must be 21 to get a conceled carry permit.
2. Have a passport-style, color photograph made.
3. Get verification of training that satisfies the training requirement. NRA, DD-14, state training course, etc. . Persons serving in the United States Armed Forces may submit a copy of their Military ID Card to satisfy the training requirement.
Actually they do background checks before Issue & do one every 6 weeks thereafter. If a person with one is charged with a Felony the CCW is suspended/confinscated untill the problem is resolved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Desmond61
The question of why there are so many shooting sprees where a gunman is killing more than one victim during a single instance.
Because they aren't generally targeting a specific person, just acting out on whoever is present.
 


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