This is getting out of hand. - Page 3




 
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This is getting out of hand.
 
April 9th, 2012  
headwards
 
This is getting out of hand.
What enables killing sprees is the mentality that such powerful weapons are necessary in day to day life. Senojekips I thinkthe movies are a result of the mentality more the the other way around.
Self defense experts mostly agree that to go around armed is to be looking for trouble and here at least the law agrees.
Our law forbids carrying personal weapons and to carry one is seen as upsetting the social balance (except for south african guys who all seem to carry knives as tools)
It makes a violent senseless outburst much less harmful and planned murder largely does not have collateral damage.
A handgun is a truly insane weapon to allow your average citizen. Every conflict/breakdown automatically has the potential to kill multiple people.
April 9th, 2012  
Yossarian
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by headwards
What enables killing sprees is the mentality that such powerful weapons are necessary in day to day life. Senojekips I thinkthe movies are a result of the mentality more the the other way around.
Self defense experts mostly agree that to go around armed is to be looking for trouble and here at least the law agrees.
Our law forbids carrying personal weapons and to carry one is seen as upsetting the social balance (except for south african guys who all seem to carry knives as tools)
It makes a violent senseless outburst much less harmful and planned murder largely does not have collateral damage.
A handgun is a truly insane weapon to allow your average citizen. Every conflict/breakdown automatically has the potential to kill multiple people.
Their presence at this point cannot be negated, first word firearms are illegal and people will stash their automatics in shoe boxes across the country.

Even in such an enviroment I see these instances still occuring in the future, as the do in terms of terrorist acts occur without firearms both inside and outside the country already today.

What I want to know is what combitnation of factors which forms this "perfect" societal killer.

And more importanly how to find a way to neutralize such occasions through prevention if at all possible., what average citizen would want otherwise?
April 9th, 2012  
senojekips
 
 
I look at this thread and can't help having a quiet giggle to myself. The question has been asked, but any answers that attempt to confront the problem are rejected.

THAT is exactly why this problem persists,... no one is actually willing to make the sacrifices that are necessary, they think that the problem can be fixed by wishing it away, without actually "doing" anything or facing the underlying problems.
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This is getting out of hand.
April 9th, 2012  
-- Dusty
 
 
Colt M1911 - Giving liberals bleeding hearts since 1911....
April 9th, 2012  
-- Dusty
 
 
I can't imagine killing anyone that I don't have a specific problem with. I can't stomach the idea of taking the lives of those not directly involved in my plight. It's just plain wrong. And those that survive claim they are victims? Not in my eyes. Nothing justifies things getting "that bad".
April 9th, 2012  
BritinBritain
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayManKiller3
lol, don't compare the Israeli situation to U.S's. They are completely different. While I don't give a crap about gun rights and all (as I will just stay away from violent cities and neighborhoods), I do not really believe more guns in the hands of civilians will reduce crime. If someone is going to kill someone, they will do it regardless of the threat of being caught or killed. Guns make it way easier to kill not just one person, but many others at the same time. You can't successfully go on a public mass killing spree without a firearm.

First reason why your Israeli comparison is off is because they have a common enemy (terrorists) and a higher morale standard than the average American (going by what I witness). Also U.S is way more diverse, so comparing us to homologous countries is also incorrect.
I can drown you in reliable statistic's from around the world that proves that where there are very restrictive gun laws crime increases and the reverse with more sensible gun laws. Washington DC was the murder capital of the US where handguns were banned, Florida was the rape capital of the US until concealed carry was introduced.

As for school shootings and why so many killings take place? The answer is simple, "Gun Free Zones." The thing about passing laws that make schools gun free zones, criminals, thugs or whatever you want to call them, simply ignore the law.

In South Africa a certain Mall in Cape Town is a gun free zone, in as many weeks it was hit six times by armed gangs. Yep gun free zones work, only it's the law abiding that obey the law, criminals don't.

Because of the restrictive gun laws in South Africa we are dealing with over 75 murders a day, some put it as high as 150.

In the UK as far as i can remember, there is (or plans for) legislation to make parents responsible for their children's actions, YET the law forbids parents the use of effective discipline. In the Isle of Man where birching was lawful there was very little in the way of crime by youths. When the Europeon Court of human rights stepped in and demanded that birching is banned, crime went up. As far as I am aware Singapore has corporal punishment on the law books and very effective from what I understand.
April 9th, 2012  
RayManKiller3
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BritinAfrica
I can drown you in reliable statistic's from around the world that proves that where there are very restrictive gun laws crime increases and the reverse with more sensible gun laws. Washington DC was the murder capital of the US where handguns were banned, Florida was the rape capital of the US until concealed carry was introduced.

As for school shootings and why so many killings take place? The answer is simple, "Gun Free Zones." The thing about passing laws that make schools gun free zones, criminals, thugs or whatever you want to call them, simply ignore the law.

In South Africa a certain Mall in Cape Town is a gun free zone, in as many weeks it was hit six times by armed gangs. Yep gun free zones work, only it's the law abiding that obey the law, criminals don't.

Because of the restrictive gun laws in South Africa we are dealing with over 75 murders a day, some put it as high as 150.

In the UK as far as i can remember, there is (or plans for) legislation to make parents responsible for their children's actions, YET the law forbids parents the use of effective discipline. In the Isle of Man where birching was lawful there was very little in the way of crime by youths. When the Europeon Court of human rights stepped in and demanded that birching is banned, crime went up. As far as I am aware Singapore has corporal punishment on the law books and very effective from what I understand.

The problem with those statistics is they don't take into account other things that was happening. It is sooo easy to find guns its not even funny, so how can one state successfully restrict handguns when the state right next to it allows it? Sure D.C can restrict the guns from its residents, but how can they stop the resident from going out of state and purchasing one? The only way they would of restricted guns successfully is if they acted as if they were another country. They would need to have checkpoints at every legal entry and patrols bordering other areas, to completely prevent firarms. During the time D.C was the murder capital, we were also facing another epidemic, that many statistics leave out: crack. There was a very widespread use of crack during this time, which upped the crime rates dramatically. Aparently the people who did the stastistics left that out either purposely (to fight gun restriction laws) or were truly naive to what was going on at the time.

I am aware and of the belief that it is too late to actually illegalize guns completely as our border is too open and too many people already have weapons.

You are talking about the whole of South Africa when you state 75 murders a day right? Well in Detroit (one city with 700,000 population), there is 1 murder a day. In New York City (population of 8 million), there is 1.3 murders a day. Regulations in New York City has tightened since 2006 and ever since, the city has been reducing the amount of crime.

70% of homicides in Detroit is not solved...

I lived in Brooklyn and as children we had to learn to get down all the time because of gun shots, even in our own homes. I still don't see the correlation with more firearms out there = less crimes. The only crime I see being reduced is the fact that it is not illegal to have one.

Guns may increase your feeling of safety, but it also increases the bad guy's confidence in being successful. It will mainly depend on how unthought out was the crime and who was more effecient with their weapon. If I was a criminal I would give no time for the male/female I am violating to pull out a weapon.


If your going to bring more statistics up, make sure it is relevant to U.S's situation. Homologous country statistics I will not count as a relevant statistics as U.S is too diverse for it.
April 9th, 2012  
Yossarian
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
I look at this thread and can't help having a quiet giggle to myself. The question has been asked, but any answers that attempt to confront the problem are rejected.

THAT is exactly why this problem persists,... no one is actually willing to make the sacrifices that are necessary, they think that the problem can be fixed by wishing it away, without actually "doing" anything or facing the underlying problems.

Can't help but agree on that.
April 9th, 2012  
George
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayManKiller3
but how can they stop the resident from going out of state and purchasing one? The only way they would of restricted guns successfully is if they acted as if they were another country. They would need to have checkpoints at every legal entry and patrols bordering other areas, to completely prevent firarms.
70% of homicides in Detroit is not solved...

If your going to bring more statistics up, make sure it is relevant to U.S's situation. Homologous country statistics I will not count as a relevant statistics as U.S is too diverse for it.
Stop people from getting guns from another State. If the problem was actually guns, the States with lax gun Laws would have a higher crime rate.
70% of Detroits murders go unsolved. Now here is the real problem, poor or ineffective policing, with politicians trying to take the easy way out by banning guns, ect instead of vigerious prosecution & incerceration. Throw in broken familys, no father figure to show guidance, "It's societys fault, not the person, ect.
Movies & video games. Saw a story about a guy who as a young teen had watched "The Godfather" & was impressed, & lacking guidance on behaviour from a nonpresent Dad, he adopted what he saw. When a guy insulted his sister, he pumped bullets into the guy, just like in the movie. Schools are/were teaching a "Moral relativism" that let children decide what actions were right & wrong w/o the teachers stepping in to correct mistakes, just another part of the problem.
April 9th, 2012  
BritinBritain
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayManKiller3
If your going to bring more statistics up, make sure it is relevant to U.S's situation. Homologous country statistics I will not count as a relevant statistics as U.S is too diverse for it.

The town of Kennesaw in Georgia passed a law years ago that all home owners are required to own a firearm. There are of course exceptions, such as religious, if a person is mentally ill or has a criminal conviction.

http://www.wnd.com/2007/04/41196/

In March 1982, 25 years ago, the small town of Kennesaw – responding to a handgun ban in Morton Grove, Ill. – unanimously passed an ordinance requiring each head of household to own and maintain a gun. Since then, despite dire predictions of “Wild West” showdowns and increased violence and accidents, not a single resident has been involved in a fatal shooting – as a victim, attacker or defender.

The crime rate initially plummeted for several years after the passage of the ordinance, with the 2005 per capita crime rate actually significantly lower than it was in 1981, the year before passage of the law.

Prior to enactment of the law, Kennesaw had a population of just 5,242 but a crime rate significantly higher (4,332 per 100,000) than the national average (3,899 per 100,000). The latest statistics available – for the year 2005 – show the rate at 2,027 per 100,000. Meanwhile, the population has skyrocketed to 28,189.

Gun Ownership Mandatory In Kennesaw, Georgia
Crime Rate Plummets

by Chuck Baldwin

The New American magazine reminds us that March 25th marked the 16th anniversary of Kennesaw, Georgia's ordinance requiring heads of households (with certain exceptions) to keep at least one firearm in their homes.

The city's population grew from around 5,000 in 1980 to 13,000 by 1996 (latest available estimate). Yet there have been only three murders: two with knives (1984 and 1987) and one with a firearm (1997). After the law went into effect in 1982, crime against persons plummeted 74 percent compared to 1981, and fell another 45 percent in 1983 compared to 1982.

And it has stayed impressively low. In addition to nearly non-existent homicide (murders have averaged a mere 0.19 per year), the annual number of armed robberies, residential burglaries, commercial burglaries, and rapes have averaged, respectively, 1.69, 31.63, 19.75, and 2.00 through 1998.

With all the attention that has been heaped upon the lawful possession of firearms lately, you would think that a city that requires gun ownership would be the center of a media feeding frenzy. It isn't. The fact is I can't remember a major media outlet even mentioning Kennesaw. Can you?

The reason is obvious. Kennesaw proves that the presence of firearms actually improves safety and security. This is not the message that the media want us to hear. They want us to believe that guns are evil and are the cause of violence.

The facts tell a different story. What is even more interesting about Kennesaw is that the city's crime rate decreased with the simple knowledge that the entire community was armed. The bad guys didn't force the residents to prove it. Just knowing that residents were armed prompted them to move on to easier targets. Most criminals don't have a death wish.

There have been two occasions in my own family when the presence of a handgun averted potential disaster. In both instances the gun was never aimed at a person and no shot was fired.

Criminals are not stupid, they will not attack anyone they know to be armed. Would you?

I'm not getting into the pro gun anti gun debate, but statistics in the US alone points to "More guns = less crime. That's fact.



Gun Ownership Mandatory In Kennesaw, Georgia
Crime Rate Plummets

by Chuck Baldwin

The New American magazine reminds us that March 25th marked the 16th anniversary of Kennesaw, Georgia's ordinance requiring heads of households (with certain exceptions) to keep at least one firearm in their homes.

The city's population grew from around 5,000 in 1980 to 13,000 by 1996 (latest available estimate). Yet there have been only three murders: two with knives (1984 and 1987) and one with a firearm (1997). After the law went into effect in 1982, crime against persons plummeted 74 percent compared to 1981, and fell another 45 percent in 1983 compared to 1982.

And it has stayed impressively low. In addition to nearly non-existent homicide (murders have averaged a mere 0.19 per year), the annual number of armed robberies, residential burglaries, commercial burglaries, and rapes have averaged, respectively, 1.69, 31.63, 19.75, and 2.00 through 1998.

With all the attention that has been heaped upon the lawful possession of firearms lately, you would think that a city that requires gun ownership would be the center of a media feeding frenzy. It isn't. The fact is I can't remember a major media outlet even mentioning Kennesaw. Can you?

The reason is obvious. Kennesaw proves that the presence of firearms actually improves safety and security. This is not the message that the media want us to hear. They want us to believe that guns are evil and are the cause of violence.

The facts tell a different story. What is even more interesting about Kennesaw is that the city's crime rate decreased with the simple knowledge that the entire community was armed. The bad guys didn't force the residents to prove it. Just knowing that residents were armed prompted them to move on to easier targets. Most criminals don't have a death wish.

There have been two occasions in my own family when the presence of a handgun averted potential disaster. In both instances the gun was never aimed at a person and no shot was fired.

Its exactly the same story around the world.

Last figures I have received, the US has 17,000 murders a year and dropping, South Africa has 27,000 plus (some have inferred that it is actually twice that number as they are government figures) and climbing.
 


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