Germany in Afghanistan

ObjSRgtLw

ObjSRgtLw

Active member
With the rising death toll the voices who question the whole mission are becoming louder here. Not many know a decent and satisfying answer to questions like- why are we risking our soldiers there and what are we actually doing in Afghanistan. Conscript soldiers recently posed these questions in a newly opened forum to the Minister of Defense and other high ranking military related persons, without getting a satisfying answer it seemed. For most soldiers it is all about the extra money (like in many more countries). With regards to the upcoming election the motion damanding to pullback German troops is getting stronger.
Any thoughts, ideas, propositions etc.?
Start the discussion please.
 
Ditto for 13th, also make sure that the ROE are clear & simple, that enable the soldiers to do the job & ensure that hot heads don't get carried away.
 
That's what they do in the RoK Army.
They get volunteers from throughout the service, train together then ship off.
They even get the parents signatures so they don't go protesting about how their kid was coerced or manipulated into serving if thy do happen to pay the ultimate price.

Other units that do ship off as a unit do not take those who do not volunteer for overseas missions.

People still protest, but it minimizes their ammunition.
 
Not a bad idea. But this country unfortunately doesn't work like this. Either the whole country is involved and backing this mission or no one... what you are proposing is a "mercenary-like" system, I'm afraid that's not a possible solution here . Plus we would lack certain soldiers if we cannot order them to go over there, our military has only 250k soldiers- we are already at the deployment limit, how are we supposed to uphold all our missions abroad if we only send volunteers?
 
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Really? There's a huge surplus of volunteers every time a deployment becomes a reality here.
It's true that the missions have so far been safe ones, but there was a huge surplus even back in 2003 when the word was that South Korean troops would be involved in combat operations. When it was not the case, a lot of folks were disappointed.
 
The question of how Germany could supply troops to aid in Afghanistan is considerably deeper than finding a way for troops to volunteer or just be ordered to go. The unified German military is less than 20 years old. I do not think the German people have a desire to support a strong military. Unification of Germany came officially on October 3rd, 1990.

Would be interested in hearing more input from our German forum members. Germany spent most of the second half of the 20th century as an occupied country.
 
I personally was 3 years old when the wall went down ;). And yes people don't want a strong military but considering our key-status in many international organizations and our geographical position- a strong force is required.
 
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I went to German over the summer last yer. Ein schoene Land, Freunde.

Anyways, the people over there are similar to here, the youth at least, question why we're overseas. They don't know why we're in Iraq or Afghanistan. Or Pakistan for that matter. (Are we in Pakistan?) Anyways, I believe the the volunteer army is important, but I understand the culture of Germany a little, and citizens fear of another Hitler. Too much military is scary to them I think. I'm proud that germany is backing us in Afghanistan, but should they pull out? Politically it shows support and keeps us tied closer as friends. I'm sure the GSG-9 or KSK train with our Special Forces. All of that is good. On the other hand, you do suffer some casualties and are spending money. As long as the money is spent in your country on weapons and such, and you aren't blowing too much else, your country should be benefiting financially, but I'm no economist nor do I know Germany that well. I think people need to be reminded what we're fighting for, people scoff at All Qeuda, they scoff because they think we're over there for oil. I'm sure if you ask any Spec Ops man, they could tell you the Intel Reports they receive and the danger that lurks. People these days are very cynical about military, gov't wise, but not the gov't itself. As we have Obama as president, he, being Liberal, would tend to like more control over our country.

I think the Germans would vote getting out of Afghanistan if they don't realize what we're fighting for. The soldiers overseas, a large majority, want to finish the fight, but the people here are selfish, as they only care about the soldiers well-being, a sacrificial selfishness on someones part. If Obama starts supporting Iraq, maybe Germany will change their minds, but I think they'll want out.
 
I agree in many ways with you Chad. Yes- 'Americas lust for oil' is a big topic. Everytime I hear that I try to get that out of peoples mind but it's really hard.
To my mind people will onyl realize what's happening world wide if we were attacked directly- not that I want dead people but we had some activity but no harm done to German Citizens- that's why we don't feel the need to protect world wide security.
does that make sense?
 
All I hear about German forces in Afghanistan is how much alcohol they drink and how fat they are.

what you are proposing is a "mercenary-like" system, I'm afraid that's not a possible solution here
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Works for us, a private can make close to $100 000 in 8 months.
 
Wallabies said:
All I hear about German forces in Afghanistan is how much alcohol they drink and how fat they are.
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Well at least Germans can drink- we start with our first beer at about 13-14 years, good training ;). I remember American people coming to Germany and getting totally lost with alcohol- some of them getting a serious alcohol poisoning, 21 is the age to drink a beer right? About the fatness I must say this seems to be a problem though for me personally- I did not yet meet many fat soldiers at the University of the Armed Forces or in the Air Force Ground Combat Regiment, those kind of soldiers would not master the training to get the status combat ready thus not getting a chance to go to missions abroad. This is all I can say about it.
 
ObjSRgtLw said:
I agree in many ways with you Chad. Yes- 'Americas lust for oil' is a big topic. Everytime I hear that I try to get that out of peoples mind but it's really hard.
To my mind people will only realize what's happening world wide if we were attacked directly- not that I want dead people but we had some activity but no harm done to German Citizens- that's why we don't feel the need to protect world wide security.
does that make sense?
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Exactly the attitude Americans had up to the bombing of Pearl Harbor
 
ObjSRgtLw said:
With the rising death toll the voices who question the whole mission are becoming louder here. Not many know a decent and satisfying answer to questions like- why are we risking our soldiers there and what are we actually doing in Afghanistan. Conscript soldiers recently posed these questions in a newly opened forum to the Minister of Defense and other high ranking military related persons, without getting a satisfying answer it seemed. For most soldiers it is all about the extra money (like in many more countries). With regards to the upcoming election the motion damanding to pullback German troops is getting stronger.
Any thoughts, ideas, propositions etc.?
Start the discussion please.
Click to expand...


Exfiltrate all German forces out of "The Stan", the ROE,s they are operating under are impossible to maintain.
Either that or change out the entire leadership of the country.
My bet is on the extraction happening first.

If you know any operators, tell them to refuse to deploy under the rediculous ROE,s they had last time out as well.
OEF forces that are not able to do the job is a serious waste of tax payers money and gives the german armed forces a black eye among operators from other nations.

MHO.
//KJ.
 
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