A German's View on Islam

[tomtom22]

[FONT=&quot]I received this email today.

[/FONT]

The author of this email is said to be Dr. Emanuel Tanay, a well-known and well-respected psychiatrist.
A German's View on Islam

A man, whose family was German aristocracy prior to World War II, owned a number of large industries and estates. When asked how many German people were true Nazis, the answer he gave can guide our attitude toward fanaticism. 'Very few people were true Nazis,' he said, 'but many enjoyed the return of German pride, and many more were too busy to care. I was one of those who just thought the Nazis were a bunch of fools. So, the majority just sat back and let it all happen. Then, before we knew it, they owned us, and we had lost control, and the end of the world had come. My family lost everything. I ended up in a concentration camp and the Allies destroyed my factories.'

We are told again and again by 'experts' and 'talking heads' that Islam is the religion of peace and that the vast majority of Muslims just want to live in peace. Although this unqualified assertion may be true, it is entirely irrelevant. It is meaningless fluff, meant to make us feel better, and meant to somehow diminish the spectre of fanatics rampaging across the globe in the name of Islam.

The fact is that the fanatics rule Islam at this moment in history. It is the fanatics who march. It is the fanatics who wage any one of 50 shooting wars worldwide. It is the fanatics who systematically slaughter Christian or tribal groups throughoutAfrica and are gradually taking over the entire continent in an Islamic wave. It is the fanatics who bomb, behead, murder, or honour-kill. It is the fanatics who take over mosque after mosque. It is the fanatics who zealously spread the stoning and hanging of rape victims and homosexuals. It is the fanatics who teach their young to kill and to become suicide bombers.

The hard, quantifiable fact is that the peaceful majority, the 'silent majority,' is cowed and extraneous.

Communist Russia was comprised of Russians who just wanted to live in peace, yet the Russian Communists were responsible for the murder of about 20 million people. The peaceful majority were irrelevant. China 'S huge population was peaceful as well, but Chinese Communists managed to kill a staggering 70 million people.

The average Japanese individual prior to World War II was not a warmongering sadist. Yet, Japan murdered and slaughtered its way across South East Asia in an orgy of killing that included the systematic murder of 12 million Chinese civilians; most killed by sword, shovel, and bayonet.

And who can forget Rwanda , which collapsed into butchery. Could it not be said that the majority of Rwandans were 'peace loving'?

History lessons are often incredibly simple and blunt, yet for all our powers of reason, we often miss the most basic and uncomplicated of points:

Peace-loving Muslims have been made irrelevant by their silence.

Peace-loving Muslims will become our enemy if they don't speak up, because like my friend from Germany , they will awaken one day and find that the fanatics own them, and the end of their world will have begun.

Peace-loving Germans, Japanese, Chinese, Russians, Rwandans, Serbs, Afghans, Iraqis, Palestinians, Somalis, Nigerians, Algerians, and many others have died because the peaceful majority did not speak up until it was too late. As for us who watch it all unfold, we must pay attention to the only group that counts--the fanatics who threaten our way of life.

Lastly, anyone who doubts that the issue is serious and just deletes this email without sending it on, is contributing to the passiveness that allows the problems to expand. So, extend yourself a bit and send this on and on and on! Let us hope that thousands, world-wide, read this and think about it, and send it on - before it's too late.

[FONT=&quot]

I think everyone should read this and give serious thought to what is said here. The lessons learned from the era of Nazism should not be forgotten.
[/FONT]

 

[MontyB]

Umm does he have a point?

We all know that majorities tend to go with the flow and we know that politics and religion have caused countless deaths.

I agree that "peace loving Muslims" need to stand up and make noise but as the rest of his email points out it is unlikey and certainly didn't happen in Germany, Japan, China, Russia, Rwanda, Serbia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Palestine, Somalia, Nigeria or Algeria so why should we expect it to happen over this?

On the whole I think it is a well written email that offers nothing.

Incidentally this is the only place I hear the term "Islam is the religion of peace", Islam is about as "peaceful" as any other religion and has been hijacked and bastardised by extremists just like every other religion at various stages in its history.

 

[rattler]

google the guy, he is the remnant ideologist of an ideology your fathers managed to prevent from ruling the world sacrificing a lot of their sons.

Rattler (German)

 

[MontyB]

Interestingly enough the same text is also attributed to Paul E. Marek...

Why The Peaceful Majority Is Irrelevant
By Paul E. Marek
I used to know a man whose family were German aristocracy prior to World War Two. They owned a number of large industries and estates. I asked him how many German people were true Nazis, and the answer he gave has stuck with me and guided my attitude toward fanaticism ever since.
“Very few people were true Nazis” he said, “but, many enjoyed the return of German pride, and many more were too busy to care. I was one of those who just thought the Nazis were a bunch of fools. So, the majority just sat back and let it all happen. Then, before we knew it, they owned us, and we had lost control, and the end of the world had come. My family lost everything. I ended up in a concentration camp and the Allies destroyed my factories.”
We are told again and again by “experts” and “talking heads” that Islam is the religion of peace, and that the vast majority of Muslims just want to live in peace. Although this unquantified assertion may be true, it is entirely irrelevant. It is meaningless fluff, meant to make us feel better, and meant to somehow diminish the specter of fanatics rampaging across the globe in the name of Islam. The fact is, that the fanatics rule Islam at this moment in history. It is the fanatics who march. It is the fanatics who wage any one of 50 shooting wars world wide. It is the fanatics who systematically slaughter Christian or tribal groups throughout Africa and are gradually taking over the entire continent in an Islamic wave. It is the fanatics who bomb, behead, murder, or honor kill. It is the fanatics who take over mosque after mosque. It is the fanatics who zealously spread the stoning and hanging of rape victims and homosexuals. The hard quantifiable fact is, that the “peaceful majority” is the “silent majority” and it is cowed and extraneous.
Communist Russia was comprised of Russians who just wanted to live in peace, yet the Russian Communists were responsible for the murder of about 20 million people. The peaceful majority were irrelevant. China’s huge population was peaceful as well, but Chinese Communists managed to kill a staggering 70 million people. The Average Japanese individual prior to World War 2 was not a war mongering sadist. Yet, Japan murdered and slaughtered its way across South East Asia in an orgy of Killing that included the systematic killing of 12 million Chinese civilians; most killed by sword, shovel, and bayonet. And, who can forget Rwanda, which collapsed into butchery. Could it not be said that the majority of Rwandans were “peace loving”.
History lessons are often incredibly simple and blunt, yet for all our powers of reason we often miss the most basic and uncomplicated of points. Peace-loving Muslims have been made irrelevant by the fanatics. Peace-loving Muslims have been made irrelevant by their silence. Peace-loving Muslims will become our enemy if they don’t speak up, because like my friend from Germany, they will awake one day and find that the fanatics own them, and the end of their world will have begun. Peace-loving Germans, Japanese, Chinese, Russians, Rwandans, Bosnians, Afghans, Iraqis, Palestinians, Somalis, Nigerians, Algerians, and many others, have died because the peaceful majority did not speak up until it was too late. As for us who watch it all unfold, we must pay attention to the only group that counts; the fanatics who threaten our way of life.
​

 

[George]

I suppose it depends if you are comfortable knowing that if the current trend continues Islam will control everywhere. Islam is conquering Europe & Kadaffi said this time with out firing a shot. Without doing something non politically correct, like expelling them, the birth trends show Islamisation of Europe is inevitable. Over here many Liberals embrace anything not associated with "traditional America" including other religions like Islam. Prior to 9-11 Time reported that 25,000 Americans a year were converting & they gushed how they look forward to describing America as an Islamic-Judeo-Christian nation. Nothing like cheering on a massive changein America's existance.

 

[MontyB]

See now you are confusing political weakness with a religious conspiracy, I don't believe for an instant that Catholic, Anglican, Jewish, Muslim or any religion for that matter would not take an opportunity to have its views enshrined in law and maintained by force if it could but for the most part secular thinking has kept them at bay.

In the end if the predominant view of the world is to become Muslim then I guess the problem will solve itself in a few years.

As for blaming the liberals for everything that is wrong with society perhaps you should understand that if the right wing were less a bunch of A-Holes that no one wants to emulate there would be more of them and less liberals.

 

[rattler]

See now you are confusing political weakness with a religious conspiracy... -snip-

...if the right wing were less a bunch of A-Holes that no one wants to emulate there would be more of them and less liberals.

Monty, you sure have a way of saying stuff... Hit the nail on the head, again!

Rattler

 

[perseus]

I'm afraid normally peaceful groups and societies can quickly turn hostile given the right type of environment. There is a spark of 'evil' in all our genes if not always in our personalities. A significant proportion of Germans voted for the Nazis despite being fully aware of their murderous tendencies towards certain minorities. During the Chinese cultural revolution children grassed on their parents and teachers resulting in their detention, torture and even deaths in some cases.

In Philip Zimpardo's book 'The Lucifer Effect (how good people turn evil)' he reproduced concentration camp type type behaviour in the 'Stanford University' experiment amongst under-graduates.

Interestingly, I’ve just finished reading a book about Murat Kurnaz, a Moslem German-Turk. Arrested in 2001 by the Pakistan police, he was sold to the Americans for $3000, and was ‘processed’ in Kandahar and eventually Guantanamo. It was 2006 before he was released, despite both the US and Germany admitting he was innocent as early as 2002. His story tells of detention without trial, and continued interrogation and torture in a camp run by a bunch of psychopaths using techniques the Gestapo would have been surely proud of (or perhaps even sickened by?). I can't help think the majority of these guys didn't do it out of misplaced hate for 9/11 but because they really enjoyed doing it! The lessons from the Nazi era have been totally forgotten!

Warning the second page of this get's nasty

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2008/apr/23/extract

 

[George]

As for blaming the liberals for everything that is wrong with society perhaps you should understand that if the right wing were less a bunch of A-Holes that no one wants to emulate there would be more of them and less liberals.

Depends of the side the view is from as to whom is acting like A-Holes.

 

[mmarsh]

Depends of the side the view is from as to whom is acting like A-Holes.

George, most Republicans I know would privately admit that their party has a particularily nasty element to it, espicially against people (including other Republicans) who disagree with them. I think this was exemplified during the 8 years of the Bush Administrion, where anyone who publically spoke out (whether it was Liberals, other countries, other republicans, etc) was ruthlessly cut to ribbons. Liberals have their faults as well, but NOBODY is quite as nasty and meanspirtied as the GOP is right now. I seriously doubt you'll find too many people, when ask honestly, that will disagree with this.

To Topic:

As for the Article. Well I think the author has some good points but again I fail to see why the Muslims are once again getting singled out for not opposing the actions of a few radicals. As if they are the sole group that refuses to speak out against the crazies in their midst.

When Dr.George Tiller was murdered a few months ago, I didnt see the pro-life or evangelielicals going all gangbusters to deannounce this act of terrorism (and yes it was domestic terrorism). Nor was it the first time that radical Christian groups in American have used violence to push their beliefs. Isnt that exactly what the Islamic radicals do? Answer: YES.

When Baruch Goldstein murdered 39 muslims who were merely praying at their Mosque how many of the Settlers (not regular Isrealis) expressed grief. Most of you know I'm from New York. I can tell you for a fact that in Brooklyn (where Goldstein was from) I saw quite a lot of celebrations who were applauding this act of terrorism.

And then there were the Serbs in the 1990, I didnt see too many acts of Christian compassion, or the denouncing of radical movements during the whole Balklans conflict, espicially when the Christians were massacring every muslim male that fell in their hands. I saw the same encouragement of atrocities that groups like al-qaeda are doing now.

So Again, Why are we singling out the Muslims when our own nose aint that clean? This is the hypocracy of the arguement. We generally turn a blind eye when its done by Christians or Jews, but when its some other group...fuggatabouit. We live in the 21th Century and we are seeing a upshot of Islamic violence this century, but we really shouldnt get all self-righteous about it because history is full of bloodbaths. I am currently sitting in a country where Christians massacred other Christians for 400 years, and its still going on to a smaller degree in places like Northern Ireland.

I am not saying the author is wrong, only that If we want to take ourselves seriously that we have to speak out against all such acts including those that happen in our backyard, not just the ones that are done by others of different cultures.

 

[George]

Politics of personal destruction seems to have started with the Clinton Admin with thier attack dog James Carvell as poster boy. On the political forums I've been on, more often than not it's a Lib who resorts to name calling first.
Back on topic, the original post said 50 Countries are @ war with Muslims involved. The numbers I've seen say over 100 Counties are involved in internal or external conflicts, & Muslims are involved in most. Yes, every religion has nuts, but if you google rioting by Moslems you'll get way more hits than rioting by Christians, or insert violence by, ect.

 

[Yin717]

I can see what he is trying to get at. Although a majority of Muslim's are loving and caring people they are not heard over the smaller more.......'bigger' groups that wreak havoc. It was rather similar with the Nazis who started of as a small group but came to power rather quickly due to their bold ideas. But for me that e-mail seems like a facist who is rarely known and is bullying his views across. I personally would be weary.

 

[wolfen]

Peaceful people are always at the mercy of non peaceful people, I had a LT once that compared peaceful people to sheep, being herded by Wolves. the Wolves are in control and the sheep are either (1) too scared to make them selves known, (2) don't care enough to make themselves known, (3) can't organize enough to make them selves known, or (4) actually like the ones controlling them and the controllers view. kinda makes sense to me since I have been in several places where there are those who don't like whats going on but do nothing about it.

My Grandfather grew up in Germany, He saw the rise of Hitler and the Third Reich, he told me the general population around where he was (Kaiserslautern) was that that political party would not be in power, when the got in power my Grandfathers town did nothing but complain about the new govt, kinda like we here in the US do now about eh new govt we have. I sure do hope that history doesn't repeat itself.

 

[GG9909]

The problems the 'peaceful' will face is going to be their lack of action resulting in their having to take blame and anger for doing nothing, to help overcome the radicals, which tix me off to no hey too. As I said on a news site one time, their mullahs shouldn't have leadership roles unless they have education like the vatican and local church leaders.:type:

 

[Partisan]

I find it slightly ironic that we in the West are villifying muslims, because of the extremists that exist in their faith - Christians - pot - kettle - Black over.

We have more than our share of fruit loops, but we regard them as an aberration, unless he / she is a muslim - then that is the norm and we must all fear them.

BTW I don't think that the nedia helps either side, but you can tell where the biases lie. Oh for objectivity

 

[mmarsh]

Politics of personal destruction seems to have started with the Clinton Admin with thier attack dog James Carvell as poster boy. On the political forums I've been on, more often than not it's a Lib who resorts to name calling first.
Back on topic, the original post said 50 Countries are @ war with Muslims involved. The numbers I've seen say over 100 Counties are involved in internal or external conflicts, & Muslims are involved in most. Yes, every religion has nuts, but if you google rioting by Moslems you'll get way more hits than rioting by Christians, or insert violence by, ect.

Sorry George, Nice try, but it started MUCH before that. The politics of personal destruction started with "Willie Horton/Revolving Door" Ads and the "hit" on Dan Rather, which we know to have been staged. It was Bush's media Media advisor a man named ROGER AILES that directed all these attacks, the same ROGER AILES who would found FOX NEWS (the absolute king of muckrakers) a decade later. That is no coincidence. The Apple doesnt fall far from the tree.

Partisan

I agree. Remember the worst terrorist attack on US soil prior to 9-11 was one of our own homegrown whackjobs. An anti-government loser named Timothy McVeigh. 9-11 seemed to wash way the idea that our nutters can be just as dangerous as the Muslim variety. I will wager that the next terror attack within the US will be done by another domestic group. With everyone focused on the crazy Arabs 5000 miles away, the crazies will be much more emboldened to act on their paranoia.

 

[perseus]

The problems the 'peaceful' will face is going to be their lack of action resulting in their having to take blame and anger for doing nothing, to help overcome the radicals, which tix me off to no hey too. As I said on a news site one time, their mullahs shouldn't have leadership roles unless they have education like the vatican and local church leaders.:type:

I'm afraid we have radicals in the Christian right and the Jewish community as well. They have tremendous influence on right wing American politics which I have no doubt is institutionally corrupt.

In what respect do the Abrahamic religions have an 'education' anyway? Some would regard education and theism to be a contradiction in terms lacking rational thought. The morals and power base of the main Christian religion, Catholicism in which I was brought up, has been shown to be morally corrupt with the deliberate cover up of sexual abuse from the top. What right have they to preach?

 

[George]

The Willy Horton ads were factually accurate.