The German tanks - Page 5




 
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October 3rd, 2005  
sunb!
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whispering Death
What's the armor like on a Leopard 2?
Don't know about the armor though the drawbacks where rather thin armour and the 105mm gun - the Leopard 2 should be heavier, better and thicker.
October 3rd, 2005  
AussieNick
 
Quote:
Not sure why Aussie díd not get a newer Leopard 2 such as A4 or A5. Not that M1A2 isn't good, don't get me wrong, but they already have older Leopards so for me it would be natrual to go for the Leopard 2 A5.
We were looking at the Leopard 2, and yes it would be a logical step up from the Leopard 1. But we got offered such a bargain with the Abrams we really couldn't say no. We got all the infrastructure included with them. The plant, the transport trucks, the recovery vehicles etc etc etc. Plus the intention is also that we can send our tank crews to serve in American vehicles and American crews can come and use our vehicles here. It saves huge costs, especially when we do joint training. For example during the recent exercise Talisman Sabre, the American tank crews could just use our tanks and not have to go to the effort, cost etc of bringing them all the way here.

I always hoped that we would get the Leopard 2, and we'd give the Leopard 1 fleet to reserve units to create a light armour element. But it wasn't to be.
October 3rd, 2005  
AlexKall
 
Ah yes, wonder if it was the correct deal, wonder if they too the running costs into calculation aswell as the bigger logistical needs. I'm sure they did, well I hope they did! I do see the point in join exercie, as we have with other Leopard 2 countries.

Leopard 2 A5 and up use composite armor with ceramics etc. I think the STRV 122 has a bit different type of armor manufacured by Sweden. Think Titanium is in the mix aswell if i'm not misstaking, but you never know, can only speculate as its top secret.
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October 3rd, 2005  
Wham-size
 
while no not if the challenger has the longest confirm tank to tank kill that puts your thorey out the window.
Quote:
The reason the M1's top dog is because the enemy is killed before he sees the M1.
if a challenger has the longest confirm kil then the challenger 2 which has a far more new gun with better sights and the same fire control uint as the m1a1s then i think the challenger can not be seen hit a tank and be home for tea.
and turbine make a seating duck they produce way to much heat thatcan give away our hide place.
and the challenger 2 armour is like the m1a2 du armour but has the advanages of being developt by the people how made 1st gen chobham so these guys kno were to put it.
October 3rd, 2005  
FO Seaman
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wham-size
while no not if the challenger has the longest confirm tank to tank kill that puts your thorey out the window.
Quote:
The reason the M1's top dog is because the enemy is killed before he sees the M1.
if a challenger has the longest confirm kil then the challenger 2 which has a far more new gun with better sights and the same fire control uint as the m1a1s then i think the challenger can not be seen hit a tank and be home for tea.
and turbine make a seating duck they produce way to much heat thatcan give away our hide place.
and the challenger 2 armour is like the m1a2 du armour but has the advanages of being developt by the people how made 1st gen chobham so these guys kno were to put it.
The CH2 has a FCS similair to the one on the M1A1 not M1A2 SEP.

Not all new guns are better, the Soviet had a brand new 125mm on the T-72 and the M60A3 TTS had a M68 105mm which had better accuracy.

You really can't say the CH1 had a better gun one it then the M1A1, becasue it had ten different armerment package's at the time, it was also a modified export model that was going to Iran.

Now I think your overplaying this whole longest shot thing. The CH1 was firing at an Iraqi T-62 or T-64, in the desert, on a clear day also factorig in that the enemy tank was an export version and most likely didn't have any good TIS or PNS, most Iraqi TC's sat on top of there tanks using bino's to spot enemy armor. I know the M1's longest shot is 3 miles on the range.

The upside to having a turbine is the less man hours spent fixing it and actually extracting it from the tank. The M1 crew can change a whole turbine in less than 45 minutes.
October 3rd, 2005  
AlexKall
 
"The CH2 has a FCS similair to the one on the M1A1 not M1A2 SEP"

"the same fire control uint as the m1a1s"

Or did you refere to something else? FCS and FCU(?) would in my book imply on the same thing

I do see a flaw there, M1A1 is quite outdated when it comes to the FCS (not the upgraded M1A1) or am I wrong? I do expect M1A2 to have alot better FCS then M1A1 (just my assumtion but i think its correct). I would be supprised if the American company did not upgrade the FCS when alot of things seems to have been upgraded?
October 3rd, 2005  
FO Seaman
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexKall
"The CH2 has a FCS similair to the one on the M1A1 not M1A2 SEP"

"the same fire control uint as the m1a1s"

Or did you refere to something else? FCS and FCU(?) would in my book imply on the same thing

I do see a flaw there, M1A1 is quite outdated when it comes to the FCS (not the upgraded M1A1) or am I wrong? I do expect M1A2 to have alot better FCS then M1A1 (just my assumtion but i think its correct). I would be supprised if the American company did not upgrade the FCS when alot of things seems to have been upgraded?
The FCS is made by a Candian company and the baseline M1A1HC's have outdated FCS's, but the most recent M1A1's the M1A1HC-D and M1A1HC-AIM have updated FCS's (made at the same time as the M1A2 SEP so that they can be on the same technical level).
October 4th, 2005  
AlexKall
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadet Seaman
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexKall
"The CH2 has a FCS similair to the one on the M1A1 not M1A2 SEP"

"the same fire control uint as the m1a1s"

Or did you refere to something else? FCS and FCU(?) would in my book imply on the same thing

I do see a flaw there, M1A1 is quite outdated when it comes to the FCS (not the upgraded M1A1) or am I wrong? I do expect M1A2 to have alot better FCS then M1A1 (just my assumtion but i think its correct). I would be supprised if the American company did not upgrade the FCS when alot of things seems to have been upgraded?
The FCS is made by a Candian company and the baseline M1A1HC's have outdated FCS's, but the most recent M1A1's the M1A1HC-D and M1A1HC-AIM have updated FCS's (made at the same time as the M1A2 SEP so that they can be on the same technical level).
Yeah was refering to the older one, not the upgraded one