German causualties on the Russian front. - Page 4




 
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September 25th, 2004  
godofthunder9010
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bootboy82
SU Civilians: 7.420.379
SU soldiers: 19.180.000
German overall military casualties: 3.500.000 (including Austrians and Sudeten Germans)

(Source: German Wikipedia.org)

In a tv documentary about the liberation of Europe, they said that nearly 80% of the german military casualties occurred on the Eastern Front. (That would be around 2.800.000 deads.)
Thar ya go. I'd still like a better sources for more specifics of German losses in tanks and combat aircraft.

EDIT might as well add these stats on Soviet losses since we have them from a pretty reliable Russian source: http://pkka.narod.ru/h-ind.htm

=== 20,500 Total Tanks lost in 1941
=== 15,000 Total Tanks lost in 1942
=== 22,400 Total Tanks lost in 1943
=== 16,900 Total Tanks lost in 1944
=== 8,700 Total Tanks lost in 1945
GRAND TOTAL OF SOVIET TANK LOSSES: 83500

=== 17,900 aircraft Soviet combat aircraft lost, 10,300 of those lost in combat in 1941
=== 12,100 aircraft Soviet combat aircraft lost, 7,800 of those lost in combat action in 1942
=== 22,500 aircraft Soviet combat aircraft lost, 11,200 of those lost in combat action in 1943
=== 24,800 aircraft Soviet combat aircraft lost, 9,700 of those lost in combat action in 1944
=== 11,000 aircraft Soviet combat aircraft lost, 4,100 of those lost in combat action in 1945
TOTAL SOVIET COMBAT AIRCRAFT LOST: 88,300
PORTION OF THAT LOST IN COMBAT: 43,100
September 28th, 2004  
Redleg
 
 
Most of the off-topic posts have been removed now!

Topic reminder:
German casualties on the Russian front.

One more off-topic/flaming post here will result in an immediate 2 days ban!!
September 28th, 2004  
godofthunder9010
 
 
Thank you Redleg.
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September 30th, 2004  
Eric
 
There is a great account of the Russian front fightings at grunt level in a highly acclaimed book " The Forgotten Soldier" by Guy Sajer....The Russian front through the eyes of an alsatian soldiers fighting with the Gross Deutchand...
(http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...sPageName=WDVW)
October 1st, 2004  
A Can of Man
 
 
Germany lost WWII on the Eastern Front.
October 1st, 2004  
hammerlock
 
 
"Germany lost WWII on the Eastern Front."

and your point is??????
October 1st, 2004  
godofthunder9010
 
 
LOL, for some people, that statement is an eye-opener.
October 1st, 2004  
A Can of Man
 
 
I just think that the massive casualties the Germans took in the Eastern Front just destroyed the best the German Army had to offer.

Yeah I know people arguing about D-Day etc.

Who knows, if D-Day didn't work and a Western Front not been opened, the Germans might have been able to put enough resources to the Eastern Front to win... at a ridiculously high price but still maybe just enough.

But heck, if there was no Eastern Front, and the bulk of Germany's Army was in the west, there was no way in hell D-Day would have worked.
October 2nd, 2004  
david_the_positive
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppleganger
Hi, these are Russian sources so can't vouch for authenticity. They appear to be fairly accurate but who can tell:

http://www.battlefield.ru/library/ba...ttle12_04.html

As well as listing Operation Mars this site has a lot of different data regarding Soviet losses in WW2.

http://pkka.narod.ru/h-ind.htm

They are useful because they are coming from the Soviet perspective. They have lots of facts and figures but have to be weighed up from the location of their source.
Already read the first link through previously. Second one seems to fit, as ridiculous as losing 83,500 tanks throughout the war seems. So now all we need is a site listing German tanks lost and we can make the comparison.

Hello Guys!

this is my first post in your forum, and I hope you find my post useful.

I want to look at the links that were quoted as Russian sources, with a caution warning regarding their authenticity by their poser.

Rkka website - uses the summary sections of " [Cloak of] Secrecy Lost: Soviet casualties 1917-1989" book.

The battlefield link above leads to david glanz's intro written for the US audiences.

My comments on both of them:

First of all, both websites aim at being accepted by the western military buff community.

Second, the RKKA site does not bother giving the explanations and pitfalls pointed out by the authors of the original book.

Third, David Glantz made his fame by marrying the successfully set stereotypes with a Russian twist "well, lets hear their view", like Erickson and many lesser known career historians who get a paycheck when their work goes to print for the western military buffs.

On German losses, the only books I know that published authentic, full reports on German military losses came out in USSR (!) in 1967 and 1973, a total of 3 volumes by Dashichev, totaling about 2500 pages. The losses are covered with actual reports of the German army. Again, the only place I have seen data like that in any language.

On Soviet losses there are two serious studies, including the one RKKA website uses, and a a St. Petersburg University work. Unfortunately in the first study they did not publish any primary sources, only their analysis of them, hence it not open source, but I feel the authors did not BS about how they made it. The book’s early version was reprinted in USA by Greenhill books. The only full wartime reports I have seen are from my own research in the Russian archives.

There are books published by schiffer - panzertruppen and german orderpolice, which are translations of german works and have german documents, some of them published in full - reports from the front regarding the so popular term “small unit combat.”

Photographs. This issue was not mentioned yet here, but there is a vast amount of photography available from the eastern front. From the german side i have seen many Propaganda Kompanie photos, as well as private soldier/officer photos. The latter appear to capture both: the regular day-to-day and the unusual.

Lastly, I want to mention the “Soviet side”, “German side” quotes. Russia is a multicultural and open society, like Germany, so the division between German – Russian sources may not represent an ideological front. There is plenty of ambiguous, fluffy literature in both languages, there are also publications that aim at educating the reader through full, which I believe is done through full, uncensored documents. An example of this is “Der Krieg gegen die Sowjetunion 1941-1945: Eine Dokumentation.” It is the single most balanced, documentary source book on the Eastern front in any language. I have not seen many books that cover such an enormous topic, as academically as they do. I feel it is a better representative of the “Russian” point of view than either of the websites mentioned earlier in this post.
October 2nd, 2004  
rOk
 
 
My own opinion is that if Hitler wouldn't have demanded an offensive, wide scale operation (ie no retreat) when the initial gains were already achieved the Wehrmacht would have faired much better.

Additionally regarding Stalingrad, I dont remember the date but I do remember the times almost accurately:
On the morning of the day when it was decided to pull out of Stalingrad the Germans burned down all warehouses full of ammo etc intent being to leave nothing to the Russians...shortly after noon the order came from Hitler who had supposedly changed his mind and demanded that the Wehrmacht stays in the city.
The result on von Paulus was that he denied making a break towards a German relief army which was 30 km out of town.
The surrender came shortly afterwards...if memory serves me right 300.000 troops lost to captivity.
And the rest of the war is full of these mediocre decisions of a mediocre politician and that's why the Germans lost on the Eastern front and the war in general.
Just my 2 cents