Was General Montgomery really overrated in WW2? - Page 41




 
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July 20th, 2009  
Del Boy
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Panzercracker
Market Failiure, the pig headed bastard was warned by rank and file that there were tanks on the ground, that there were strong concentrations of troops and that partial landing means FUBAR of the entire operation.

In NO WAY is that a substantiation of your accusation of cowardice!
I ask you again - would you care to substantiate that accusation of cowardice?

So far we have bluster from you, as patiently exposed by mKenny.
July 20th, 2009  
BritinAfrica
 
 
Montgomery was severly wounded on October, 13th 1914 at the battle of Meterenin, while leading a counter-offensive was shot in the chest by a German sniper, piercing a lung. Subsequently awarded the Distinguished Service Order

Promoted to Brigade Major in 1915 after recovery from wounds sustained, began training Kitcheners New Army.

Redeployed to the Western Front as a staff officer in 1916, present during the battles of Somme, Arras and Passchendaele.


Served at the battles of the Lys and Chemin-des-Dames, where at the end of the Great War had attained the rank of "General Staff Officer 1" and chief of staff for the 47th London Division.


Not the actions of a coward
July 20th, 2009  
Del Boy
 
We do well to remember that BritinAfrica. And BTW - I doubt that any other Generals in WW11 had such experience and record. Must admit I always only associated him with WW11. My respect grows at the reminder , especialy now that our awareness of WW1 burns so bright.
Thank you and Cheers.
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July 28th, 2009  
rustybolt25
 
I suggest a good book for "cracker" to read is "Overlord" by Max Hastings. It gives a very balanced view of all involved. Another great book is "The devil's virtuosos'" by David Downing. I had some rather negative views of Monty over the years but further reading has increased my repect for him. He had some big personality problems and made military blunders (which WW2 generals didn't?), but I believe the positives outweigh the negatives. Saying Monty was a coward is just silly. Cracker, I think your nationalistic pride and emotion have got in the way of some clear thinking on this complicated subject.
July 28th, 2009  
LeEnfield
 
 
Max Hastings seems to dislike nearly every one that wore a uniform, but makes a fortune out of writing books on them and telling them what they should have done to be more successful
July 28th, 2009  
Del Boy
 
Cracker needs a strong dose of the latest - D-DAY by Antony Beevor. The Battle for Normandy.
July 29th, 2009  
03USMC
 
 
Monty may have been many things but a coward is not one of them, and the accusation is without merit or substance and amounts to nothing but alot of posturing.

Everyone in the anti-Montgomery Camp keeps pointing to Market Garden it was one operation that went pear shaped not his entire career. Market Garden may have suffered from some bad intel. It may have suffered from bad planning, in that it was hastily planned and executed. It may have suffered from poor terrian study, especially the route used by 30 Corps that confined their movements to improved roads and slowed them down. It did suffer from bad communication once the Airborne forces were on the ground and it may have been over reaching or as Ryan called it "a bridge to far" but all the anti-Monty's forget one thing..................................

Had Market Garden been successful it most likely would have shortened the war as Monty predicted.


That is not an Operation planned or conducted by a coward or by a weak commander. That was a gamble that Monty was willing to take to shorten the war and it failed.....operations do that some time.

Besides that the failure for Market Garden can and should be shared. After all Ike had to approve it and he apparently thought enough of it to do so, so should cop some of the blame as the approving authority yet he doesn't.

I understand how the Brit's, and other allied nations feel when I have to see an American go off on a US centric rant concerning WW2 or WWI. Got news for ya Cracker everybody US, Brit's , Aussie's, Kiwi's and Canucks , Soviets. Belgians, Dutch, Poles, French and all the other allied nations "was in it to win it" there was no choice. The US assisted the allies as part of a team and Montgomery was a big part of that team and a big reason the allies won. Ike allowed Monty alot of latitude and Ike understood the team concept.

Was Monty a prima dona? Yeah sure. But Christ the US fielded two of the biggest self promoting SOB's of the war. G.S. Patton Jr and Douglas MacArthur both of whom got the job done but created butt pain for everyone. So Monty has no corner on it.

It's may considered belief that most if not all the ill will directed at Montgomery has it's basis in the Patton feud that has been fueled by Georges biographers and on film. IMHO most Americans would do well to explore other sources on both Patton and Montgomery and especially Market Garden if they truely wish to have a well rounded view.
July 29th, 2009  
Del Boy
 
Fine post, that.

It seems that Monty's problem was a personality trait. He was the most difficult of the generals for Ike, more problematic even than Patton. He showed scant respect for his boss, reprimanding him for smoking in his presence at their first meeting. 'Nice chap - no soldier'; Ike's performance in controlling his posse proved otherwise I suggest.

Despite being a highly professional soldier, Monty suffered from tremendous conceit, probably due to an inferiority complex.
"My beret (hat) is worth 3 divisions. The men see it in the distance. They say 'There's Monty - and then they will fight anybody."

At the same time he had an extrordinary showman's knack which usually radiated confidence to his troops.

(source : D-Day Antony Beevor.)
July 30th, 2009  
03USMC
 
 
That Monty inspired confidence in his troops has never been in question in my mind.
August 4th, 2009  
rustybolt25
 
Brilliant post O3. You appear to have a solid knowledge of the subject.