Was General Montgomery really overrated in WW2? - Page 28




 
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April 14th, 2006  
redcoat
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Londonderry
We concentrate a lot on Monty at El Alemein and then Normandy but forget about his role in the debacle that was the Dieppe Raid (August 1942) by the Canadians.
While Monty did help draw up the original plan, the plan was later altered by Mountbatten, and it went ahead after Monty had advised against it.
April 15th, 2006  
zander_0633
 
 
Well, it's all allied planning?
April 17th, 2006  
tomtom22
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Londonderry
We concentrate a lot on Monty at El Alemein and then Normandy but forget about his role in the debacle that was the Dieppe Raid (August 1942) by the Canadians.
And don't forget his failed Operation Market-Garden, or as the movie called it "A Bridge Too Far"
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April 18th, 2006  
redcoat
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomtom22
And don't forget his failed Operation Market-Garden, or as the movie called it "A Bridge Too Far"
As long as we don't forget the Hurtgen Forest or Metz either. It wasn't just the British Commonwealth forces that were taken by surprise by the German armys ability to recover as a fighting force even after its defeat in Normandy
April 20th, 2006  
Young Winston
 
 
Monty did initially advise a frontal assault at Dieppe. This stayed in the plan.
April 21st, 2006  
Lord Londonderry
 
Flanking attacks at Dieppe were initially considered too difficult for tanks (poor intelligence). Monty believed prior to Jubilee that the attack should have been cancelled. The firepower available was just too weak. He was no longer in overall command of the ground forces at this stage.
April 21st, 2006  
perseus
 
 
Quote:
Normandy was'nt concieved by Monty,but by Lieutenant General Frederick Morgan,he was the original planner of Operation Overlord, the Allied invasion of Europe. It was changed by Monty,and yes Monty was in charge of the 21st army group.
Yes, Morgan organised a landing for 3 divisions since initially he couldn't get permission to upgrade it. Eventually Eisenhower, Montgomery and Bedell Smith mutually agreed 5 divisions should be used but Montgomery claimed the credit for himself.

However, I think Admiral Bertrand Ramsay deserves most of the credit for the D-day success. He was tasked with Operation Neptune, the naval orders for Overlord. This included the initial air and beach operations, installation of the Mulberry and captured harbours, deception plans and full logistical details. Neptune was detailed in an encyclopaedic 22 parts and 1000 pages but laced with ‘Mickey Mouse’ diagrams for simplicity.

According to Correlli Barnett of ‘Engage the Enemy More Closely’ "operation Neptune together with Ramsey’s proceeding Naval plan, in scope and thoroughness, in the complexity and scale of the problems solved, they eclipse the renowned performances of the German General Staff from 1866 onwards. They stand to this day as a never surpassed masterpiece of planning and staff work".

Ramsay was also one of the few men who could get on with Montgomery although they were opposites in personality. Montgomery said that Ramsay 'understood us soldiers and know more about the land battle better than any other sailor'.

In fact, Ramsay with his skills for improvisation during the Dunkirk evacuation, and planning in the Torch and Husky landings, must rank as the greatest unsung hero of WW2 . Not bad for a retired naval officer. He was tragically killed just before the war ended in an air crash.
May 1st, 2006  
Lord Londonderry
 
Good points Perseus.
May 1st, 2006  
zander_0633
 
 
Wel, you can't underrate a man.
May 2nd, 2006  
poacher63
 
Montgomery was a professional Officer who had experience and understanding of the horrors of WWI trench warfare. His experience of this led him to understand the need for careful planning and preparation and to carefully husband his soldiers ability. Yes he was master of the set peice battle, as was Zukov who on the only time he attacked precipetously in operation Mars suffered his only set back. Known to be cautious not moving without knowing as much intelligence as possible this trait served him well,his casuallty figures in all his battles do him much credit and is the reason that he was well loved by his men. His planning for D-Day was slightly more involved than Perseus admits and indeed Ramsey and the Royal Navy certainly dont get the credit they deserve for Normandy bearing in mind Naval firepower was desicive during the defensive phase. What is impressive about Normandy is Montgomery knew how he wanted to fight it,how the Germans would and did fight it, knew which part of Allied forces would be best for which particular type of warfare i.e the British&Canadians for defensive the Americans for Offensive and impressively the Phase lines for the complete campaign was predicted to whithin 2 days!(The River Siene D+90-in fact they made it D+92!). As for innovated certainly when you look at the planning phase for Market Garden was impossibly short and within an 'ace' of sucess, if he had achieved sucess he would undoubtedly be lauded as one of the best generals of WW2. Let us finally loook at his contribution to the Battle of the Bulge(IN which actually the British deployed the whole of 30 Corps to its NW sectors-so much for Steven Ambrose"The British only had a small part in the operation!)If it had not een for Montgomery pulling back the 7th U.S Armoured Div to better defensable terrain then it would have been annilhlated. Yes he could be difficult to get along with, his sacking of commanders who could'nt 'cut the mustard' is long and impressive! A lot of Monty's bad press also came from the fact that it annoyed the U.S that he commanded rather alot of their forces! In short certainly one of the most important commanders of WWII along with Bill 'Slim' both Royal Warwickshire Regt men(The only regiment to provide 2 Field Marshalls in WWII) and by default A Fusilier!. As for only make a colonel! get agrip!!!