Gays in military? - Page 5




 
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July 7th, 2005  
Illuminati
 

Topic: Sacred Band of Thebes


Sacred Band of Thebes
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theban_Sacred_Band

Memorial to the Sacred Band of Thebes at Chaeronea, marking the communal grave (πολυανδρειον / polyandreîon) in which they were buried. Philip II of Macedon erected the tribute to commemorate the bravery of the conquered batallion.The Sacred Band of Thebes (in ancient Greek ἱερὸς λόχος / hierňs lókhos) was an elite Greek troop of 150 pairs of pederastic lovers, according to Plutarch (in the Life of Pelopidas) formed by the Theban commander Gorgidas. The pairs consisted of the older heniochoi, charioteers, and the younger paraibatai, companions. The motivation for the use of such an "Army of Lovers" in battle is also stated by Plutarch:

"For men of the same tribe or family little value one another when dangers press; but a band cemented by friendship grounded upon love is never to be broken, and invincible; since the lovers, ashamed to be base in sight of their beloved, and the beloved before their lovers, willingly rush into danger for the relief of one another."
According to Plutarch, Gorgidas initially distributed the Sacred Band of Thebes throughout his battle lines as an elite to strengthen the others' resolve, but later Pelopidas, after the Band had fought successfully at Tegyrae, used it as a sort of personal guard. For about 33 years, the Sacred Band of Thebes remained an important part of the Greek infantry.

Its defeat came at the Battle of Chaeronea, the decisive battle in which Philip II of Macedon and his son Alexander the Great ended the independence of the Greek city-states. Philip had been held as a hostage in Thebes, and had learned his military tactics there. The remainder of the Theban army fled when faced with the overwhelming forces of Philip and Alexander, but the Sacred Band, surrounded, held their ground and fell where they stood. Plutarch recounts that upon encountering their corpses heaped together and understanding who they were he exclaimed:

"Perish any man who suspects that these men either did or suffered anything unseemly."
Though Plutarch claims that all three hundred died that day, other writers claim that two hundred and fifty four died and all the rest were wounded. That claim was substantiated upon the excavation of their communal grave at Chaeronea, in which two hundred and fifty four skeletons were found, arranged in seven rows.


Illustrative bas-relief of Greek warrior accompanied by his charioteer. From the pediment of a kouros statue, ca. 490 BCE.Plato wrote about the code of honor of the Sacred Band of Thebes:

"The beloved, when he is found in any disgraceful situation, will be pained at being detected by his lover. If there were only some way of contriving that a state or an army should be made up of lovers and their loves, they would be the very best governors of their own city, abstaining from all dishonour... For what lover would not choose rather to be seen by all mankind than by his beloved, either when abandoning his post or throwing away his arms... Or who would desert his beloved or fail him in the hour of danger?"



Memorial to the Sacred Band of Thebes at Chaeronea, marking the communal grave (πολυανδρειον / polyandreîon) in which they were buried. Philip II of Macedon erected the tribute to commemorate the bravery of the conquered batallion.
July 8th, 2005  
chewie_nz
 
nice post, i had forgotten about them
September 13th, 2005  
jason10mm
 
The Army already spends a ton of time "training" us to prevent sexual harassment, equal opportunities, domestic violence, etc ad nauseum. I personally know of several incidents of male-female sexual relations that damaged the workplace. Throw in homosexuals and you will have male-male and female-female relations damaging the workplace.

A lot of the "anti-gay" sentiment in the military probably stems from the "anti-woman" sentiment that is slowly crumbling away. A lot of the American military tradition comes from a strong Christian base which is "anti-gay". There is also a lot of male chauvinism used to turn men into killers. This instills a lot of hostility against anything "different" which includes gays. This mirrors the civilian view, which, MTV to the contrary, is still predominantly discouraging of homosexuals. These attitudes will eventually change.

But a more interesting question (for me), is whether or not the military would be BETTER if gays were allowed to openly serve. You could argue that we currently have a manpower (or peoplepower in todays genderless speak) shortage an could use that extra 2-10% of the population to draw from, but who knows what would happen to heterosexual recruiting if gays were openly serving. Can gays fight better, march longer, shoot more accurately, or maintain equipment more effectively? If not, then disrupting a system that works quite well just to accommodate a very small minority doesn't make much sense. But as the entry requirements drop (I think they are raising the age to enlist, as well as selectively waiving the high school graduate requirement, not to mention lowering the physical fitness standards) to boost recruitment, even a small minority might be catered to.
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September 13th, 2005  
Jason Bourne
 
I do not want gays in the military for certain reasons, some of which i will name, first of all the shower thing could mess up concentration for both gays and straights, think about, if you were a straight guy and they made you shower with women, you would be pretty distracted i would think, and so would a gay guy showering with a bunch of naked men, you have any idea what would be going through his head, i am pretty sure he wouldn't even want to be thinking about the men around him, sometimes thoughts can't always be controlled. Alot of it also does have to do with women, for example i know that some men would take pity(not that they would need it) on a woman who was wounded and would probably stop just to go protect them better. Same thing with a gay guy if he is attracted to someone who works with him what happens if they are in combat and he is constantly catering to their needs which can endanger the unit, i am not saying this WILL happen just saying it is more than likely. For the record, i don't hate gays, i sometimes say things that make people think i do, but i honestly don't hate them so don't call me a basher cause that is mean.
September 13th, 2005  
chewie_nz
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Bourne
I do not want gays in the military for certain reasons, some of which i will name, first of all the shower thing could mess up concentration for both gays and straights, think about, if you were a straight guy and they made you shower with women, you would be pretty distracted i would think, and so would a gay guy showering with a bunch of naked men, you have any idea what would be going through his head, i am pretty sure he wouldn't even want to be thinking about the men around him, sometimes thoughts can't always be controlled. Alot of it also does have to do with women, for example i know that some men would take pity(not that they would need it) on a woman who was wounded and would probably stop just to go protect them better. Same thing with a gay guy if he is attracted to someone who works with him what happens if they are in combat and he is constantly catering to their needs which can endanger the unit, i am not saying this WILL happen just saying it is more than likely. For the record, i don't hate gays, i sometimes say things that make people think i do, but i honestly don't hate them so don't call me a basher cause that is mean.
1st of all...


you dont think there are gays in the miltary already?







September 13th, 2005  
Rabs
 
 
You cant sterotype gays. I have gay friend and black friends

I am very racist and very homophobic, does that mean as long as you keep your mouth shut and dont remind me who/what you are every 5 minutes i cant be cool with you. As long as your not the black guy that wears the 40 pound chain with a 300 dollar jersery thats 4 sizes too big and pantz sized for somenoe twice your size i can be fine with you and can become good friends, same thing with gays as long as you dont hit on me or anything of that matter were good to go.
September 13th, 2005  
Whispering Death
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chewie_nz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Bourne
I do not want gays in the military for certain reasons, some of which i will name, first of all the shower thing could mess up concentration for both gays and straights, think about, if you were a straight guy and they made you shower with women, you would be pretty distracted i would think, and so would a gay guy showering with a bunch of naked men, you have any idea what would be going through his head, i am pretty sure he wouldn't even want to be thinking about the men around him, sometimes thoughts can't always be controlled. Alot of it also does have to do with women, for example i know that some men would take pity(not that they would need it) on a woman who was wounded and would probably stop just to go protect them better. Same thing with a gay guy if he is attracted to someone who works with him what happens if they are in combat and he is constantly catering to their needs which can endanger the unit, i am not saying this WILL happen just saying it is more than likely. For the record, i don't hate gays, i sometimes say things that make people think i do, but i honestly don't hate them so don't call me a basher cause that is mean.
1st of all...


you dont think there are gays in the miltary already?







I have 2 aquaintainces the the US armed forces that are gay, one Army and one Airforce. I don't keep up too frequently with either of them but they have told me they arn't exactly lonely.

Until they make everyone take a ploygraph there's going to be and have always been gays in the millitary.

That's why I think "don't ask don't tell" is stupid. Either you strap everyone up to a lie detector or just let the gays serve with the honor that every fighting man deserves.
September 14th, 2005  
Jason Bourne
 
I never said that there aren't gays in the military chewie so please don't put words in my mouth.

Rabs you just summarized many of my feelings, lol.
September 14th, 2005  
Marinerhodes
 
 
Punitive Articles of the UCMJ
From Rod Powers,
Your Guide to U.S. Military.
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Article 125—Sodomy
Text.

“(a) Any person subject to this chapter who engages in unnatural carnal copulation with another person of the same or opposite sex or with an animal is guilty of sodomy. Penetration, however slight, is sufficient
to complete the offense.

(b) Any person found guilty of sodomy shall by punished as a court-martial may direct.”

Elements.

(1) That the accused engaged in unnatural carnal copulation with a certain other person or with an animal. (Note: Add either or both of the following elements, if applicable)

(2) That the act was done with a child under the age of 16.

(3) That the act was done by force and without the consent of the other person.

Explanation.

It is unnatural carnal copulation for a person to take into that person’s mouth or **** the sexual organ of another person or of an animal; or to place that person’s sexual organ in the mouth or **** of another person or of an animal; or to have carnal copulation in any opening of the body, except the sexual parts, with another person; or to have carnal copulation with an animal.

Lesser included offenses.

(1) With a child under the age of 16.


(a) Article 125—forcible sodomy (and offenses included therein; see subparagraph (2) below)

(b) Article 134—indecent acts with a child under 16

(c) Article 80—attempts

(2) Forcible sodomy.


(a) Article 125—sodomy (and offenses included therein; see subparagraph (3) below)

(b) Article 134—assault with intent to commit sodomy

(c) Article 134—indecent assault

(d) Article 80—attempts.

(3) Sodomy.


(a) Article 134—indecent acts with another

(b) Article 80—attempts

Maximum punishment.

(1) By force and without consent. Dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for life without eligibility for parole.

(2) With a child who, at the time of the offense, has attained the age of 12 but is under the age of 16 years. Dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 20 years.

(3) With a child under the age of 12 years at the time of the offense. Dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for life without eligibility for parole.

(4) Other cases. Dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 5 years.

Next Article> Article 126-Arson >

Above Information from Manual for Court Martial, 2002, Chapter 4, Paragraph 51



Any "practicing" homosexual male can be charged under the UCMJ. If they openly admit that they are gay then of course they admit that they practice sodomy. It would put them in a catch 22 situtation. This of course can also apply to heterosexual couples that practice those particulars of sex.
September 15th, 2005  
LeEnfield
 
 
I saw this on a Royal Marine site and thought you might like to read it.

Quote:
Met up with this lad last night who's just about hacked training. He told me all about the First "Offical" Poof in training.

Seems he's very Ooo get you bigboy! Mike told me of the day that he cocked up on weapon drills and was told to take his helmet to the Water Tank, Fill it up and then put it on his head. So off he Minced a skipping and a hopping to the tank. Gets there and is told to naff off by a PTI as blokes were doing regains. Minces back to his instructor who then informed him that he had to see every PTI and PW on the bottom field to get permission to dip his helmet in the Tank. So theres the "Mincing Nod" Skipping up to all the instructors asking

"Can I dip my HELMET please Cpl/Sgt"

Turns out that all the PW's and PTI's were in stitches as this guys got a voice like Farking Blue Bottle from out of the Goonshow. The odds on the Whoofter passing out are very very slim so Mike informed me.

All joking aside I think it bloody stinks making the Armed Forces enlist whoofters. Jesus Wept what next? Blokes having a sex change care of the Forces? I just wish the Powers that be would make a stand and say Enough is Enough! lets get back to reality and stop this errosion of our Once proud Armed Forces.