Gays in military?

BennettNC_156 said:
You guys have to be truthful, while you were showering in basic, would you want a gay guy in their with you? No. Not unless you yourself are gay.
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And you don't think that opinion is at all reminiscent of the guys in the 50s who couldn't believe they where expected to trust their lives to "inferior niggers"?
 
BennettNC_156 said:
Mod Edit: Please try to be a little more polite. Actually, don't try, just do it!

You guys have to be truthful, while you were showering in basic, would you want a gay guy in their with you? No. Not unless you yourself are gay.
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What do you think the gay guy is gonna do - rape you?
 
BennettNC_156 said:
You guys have to be truthful, while you were showering in basic, would you want a gay guy in their with you? No. Not unless you yourself are gay.
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They were there and that's just the way it is. I am not gay and to be painfully honest seeing displays of affection between same sex couples really is disturbing to me but they have a right to it. I am sure that they are equally grossed out by hetero couples making out. It just stand to reason. And recently it has become an issue I have been forced to confront personally because my teenage daughter has come out of the closet and it was more than a little unsettling. Her mother, my ex, a captain in the US Army, is having a very difficult time accepting it.

One concept that is very different tween the US and Europe is the idea that a naked body is sexual. In Europe it is just naked, nothing more and there is nothing sexual about it. Growing up in the states I was as uptight about nudity as a body could be coming from a fundamentalist christian household and it took some time to get over it. This I think is the whole problem behind the sensitivity of most American's about the "shower issue".
 
Personally I dont see whats wrong with the existing "dont ask, dont tell" system.

ou guys have to be truthful, while you were showering in basic, would you want a gay guy in their with you? No. Not unless you yourself are gay.
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Just for interests sake I recall a statement from an officer in the british royal marines who said "men dont like taking showers with men who like taking showers with men".

However on the other side of the coin I "think" the Dutch military has no restirction on gays in the military and apparently it causes them no problems.
 
The problem is that it does create a serious issue with security. Under the current system someone who is gay can be easily blackmailed and compromised by an enemy asset as he has something that can be used against him. Just as easily as a hetero person could be blackmailed if they have had an extramarital affair. This was behind the reasoning in the USCMJ for it being a criminal offense to be unfaithful to your spouse. This don't ask don't tell crap is a serious mistake. It was IMHO a spineless move by the Clinton administration. He didn't say yes and he didn't say no... typical politician.
 
I don't think in Australia we have any restrictions placed on gays. Personally, if they show the qualities expected of a Soldier/Sailor/Airmen/Officer, let them serve. Same with women in combat roles. As long as they know what they are doing.
 
bulldogg said:
The problem is that it does create a serious issue with security. Under the current system someone who is gay can be easily blackmailed and compromised by an enemy asset as he has something that can be used against him. Just as easily as a hetero person could be blackmailed if they have had an extramarital affair. This was behind the reasoning in the USCMJ for it being a criminal offense to be unfaithful to your spouse. This don't ask don't tell crap is a serious mistake. It was IMHO a spineless move by the Clinton administration. He didn't say yes and he didn't say no... typical politician.
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Personally if I had to pick one option or the other I would back lifting the restrictions on gays (as I also support opening of all roles to woman in the military) however I am sure someone out there has a valid rational reason as to why they think I am wrong on this one.
 
There is no valid rational reason for preventing gays from being in the millitary, there are only emotional reactions. "ew, I don't want a gay guy next to me!" kind of stuff.
 
nz views on homophobia-phobia

i went to a "gays in the army seminar today and its not wot a gay person is going to do to you/us at all ,its just the fear of our peers thinking that we ourselves are gay and that challenges our masculinity as males(sorry ladies i cant comment on your positions) so you see its not about there ability its about our self esteem issues
nzdf currently has no gender or sexual preference discrimination in its services we have got our first female in the royal nz armoured corp this year i got no probs if she/them can do the job required
 
If someone is so upset by gay people serving with, I wonder what reall stresfull situations will do to him...You know, like hh, war? :D
 
SHERMAN said:
If someone is so upset by gay people serving with, I wonder what reall stresfull situations will do to him...You know, like hh, war? :D
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Probably cause a sudden an intensely unpleasant feelings in the bowels.....fortunately this is usually temporary....you get over it and keep riding recon.....kinda like concerns about gays and their effectiveness and or impact on morale. :visor: :rambo:
 
Part of the problem with open gays in the military is the makeup of the existing force. I think it is well known that military guys display a macho image, and that bullying is not uncommon in the ranks.
Most personel are going to probably just get on with their duties and it won't worry them. But there are going to be rednecks who are going to try and make the life of any open gay guy hell, there are some that will be battling inwardly with their own sexuality and as is known, the most overt "gay basher" is often someone fighting their own gay tendencies. These just will not cope with showering etc with open gay guys, every look from the gay guy will be seen as perving. Another problem is that the military has people of different religious backgrounds, Eg, I was listening to a Islamic Mullah on TV last night, his attitude to gays is that they should be killed, this he teaches in Mosques he visits. So if your gay and your life depends on the muslim soldier with you, can you trust he will not let you cope a bullet in accordance with his teachings.
It is not cut and dried, if I was gay I would keep it secret in order to fit in, but that is me.
 
Well, I dont think anyone should go around shouting "Im gay!". I dont think they should be shouting "Im straight!" either. And I feel, and perhaps more experienced men here can support me on this, that when people of diffrent backrounds and beliefes train and fight togather, theuy find ways over the difrences.
 
SHERMAN said:
Well, I dont think anyone should go around shouting "Im gay!". I dont think they should be shouting "Im straight!" either. And I feel, and perhaps more experienced men here can support me on this, that when people of diffrent backrounds and beliefes train and fight togather, theuy find ways over the difrences.
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You are entirely correct no matter the length of time it takes and no matter whether you personaly LIKE IT or not. :visor:
 
I am not in the service. I hope to be, and have had many, many family members go into several branches, and the first thing that comes to their mind when I ask them about their time in the service and how it changed them is how they learned to leave their opinions out of their service. My grandfather is somewhat racist, but tells me that was no problem when he was in, because he was trained to set aside his personal opinion.
 
That is very very true. One lesson I learned very early on was summed up by what our PSG told us one day when we were given some assignment, I dont remember, and it was meant with audible dissatisfaction. He said...

"You don't have to like it. You just have to do it."

They are words I live by still.
 
EnigmaNZ said:
Another problem is that the military has people of different religious backgrounds, Eg, I was listening to a Islamic Mullah on TV last night, his attitude to gays is that they should be killed, this he teaches in Mosques he visits. So if your gay and your life depends on the muslim soldier with you, can you trust he will not let you cope a bullet in accordance with his teachings.
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So if I read this right, we could really put a hurt on the whole Islamic Jihad movement if we fielded a division of openly gay soldiers and they proceeded to knock the holy hell out of whatever military force the Islamists could put on the battlefield?
 
EnigmaNZ said:
Another problem is that the military has people of different religious backgrounds, Eg, I was listening to a Islamic Mullah on TV last night, his attitude to gays is that they should be killed, this he teaches in Mosques he visits. So if your gay and your life depends on the muslim soldier with you, can you trust he will not let you cope a bullet in accordance with his teachings.
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You do realize that in the 50s the KKK would sometimes actually go to the church to have the pastor bless them for "what you are all about to do".

Overcomming intollerance is nothing the Millitary has failed at before, I don't see why the current US Millitary would be more of a failure now.
 
Re: nz views on homophobia-phobia

raglan QA said:
i went to a "gays in the army seminar today and its not wot a gay person is going to do to you/us at all ,its just the fear of our peers thinking that we ourselves are gay and that challenges our masculinity as males(sorry ladies i cant comment on your positions) so you see its not about there ability its about our self esteem issues
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I totally agree.
 
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