A Frenchman who makes sense.

gladius

Active member
I not a big fan of the policies of the French government.

Other that the fact they are completely socialist, their foreign policy of supporting the Arabs over Israel (the only self-made and continuos democracy in the region) is absolutely beyond reason and is only going to hurt them in the long run.

But at least one Frenchman is brave enough to make at least some sense.

But at least there is one Fenchman who is making sense;

MESSAGE TO AMERICAN AND BRITISH SOLDIERS IN IRAQ and those from others countries

Dear Soldiers,

Each day friends of your are dying by accomplishing their duty. Each day Iraqis mothers can hope in the futur for their children. Each day, we are thinking to you all.

You are disliking the war, we are disliking the war. But your mission is the most important mission for people in Iraq and Middle East. You are fihting for freedom of the first people from arabic muslim era which will try the democracy because you are fighting for it.

I write you from of country leading by a coward government. More than coward, it’s totally a foreigner in front of value of respect about human being. French governement friends have used it. They are all dictators. Our government say that " we must respect the traditions and culture " of people. You know what it’s mean from the 11 September….

MESSAGE TO AMERICAN AND BRITISH SOLDIERS IN IRAQ
 
I have met many french who hate their silly government and are sorry for what they are famous for: Pacifism and showing white flags once wars begin....
 
while on subject, has anything positive ever been posted about the french on this board??

and would americans post something good about the french if they did something they agreed with?
 
Well it seems that French bashing is the newest thing (and curiously wondering why they like the Americans less and less) I do have a general remark or two:
Other that the fact they are completely socialist....

What's wrong with this? Is it wrong that a government intervenes so that the poor don't get any poorer? You make it sound like a desease. And if you do thinks this, why spread democracy over the world? You forcefully implement "democracy" but couldn't care less that these liberated people have any money to spend. Please don't say that if they work hard enough they will have money, because then you would step over something called world economics.

Ask any kid in Bangladesh or Sri Lanka if they prefer to work 14 houres shifts manufacturing Nike shoes for 50 cents per day or a socialist government which restricts working shifts to 8 houres, subsedises school fees and rent. However in the latter he has to pay taxes....
 
Ted

French bashing is not new, its been going on about 3 years now. Most of it is done by people who never lived here and therefore have absolutely no clue what they are talking about. The funny thing is despite how badly certain (and it is just a minority) American's treat the French, the French are much more polite when it comes to Americans. Being dual-national, and having lived in both countries. I never once have had these stupid arguements about America with the French.

As for Socialism, Americans confuse socialism with communism. most of them cannot tell the difference between the two at all because the public education system is such s**t. You have people in America graduating High School who can barely read+write.

But back to topic.

Well there are some points in the letter that are valid. The French have been worried for years about Muslim expansion in Europe thats why they have some of the strictest immigration laws in Europe. The real reason the French were against Iraq was because they were afraid about muslim extremists hitting back on western targets. They were right, the bombing of Madrid and London (targets that Islamic militants had never hit before prior to Iraq) suddenly became center stage. Whereas France has not been hit because it learned in Algeria that sticking ones's nose in the Arab world was a good way to incite radical Islam.
 
Well mmarsh I concur on your post, but (Luckily) I noted one slight mishap:

Whereas France has not been hit because it learned in Algeria that sticking ones's nose in the Arab world was a good way to incite radical Islam.

I haven't found the list in english yet (I'll translate them) but here it goes:

* 1956, 30 September - The ALgerian terrortistorganisation FLN detonates several bombs in offices of Air France.
* 1980, 3 oktober - Attack on the Synagogue rue Copernic in Paris.
* 1983, 15 juli - Attack in the airport Orly in Paris.
* 1985, 7 december - Attacks on the warehouse Galeries Lafayette and Printemps in Paris done by the pro-Iranian Fouad Ali Saleh group.
* 1986 - Fouad Ali Saleh groep pleegt in 1986 de volgende aanslagen:
3 februari - Attack on the Galeries de Claridge on the Champs-Elysées in Paris
4 februari - Attack on the bookstore Gibert-Jeune in Paris
5 februari - Attacks on FNAC-Sports en Forum des Halles in Paris
20 maart - Attack on Galerie Point-Show on the Champs-Elysées in Paris
8 september - Attack on Poste de l'Hôtel de Ville in Paris
12 september - Attack on Cafétéria du Magasin Casino in La Défense in Paris
14 september - Attack on the Pub Renault in Paris
15 september - Attack on the Préfecture de Police in Paris
17 september - Attack on the Magasin TATI, rue de Rennes in Paris

So they had their fair share. However I do think that the French took the lesson into account that if you attack a man's home, he might come for yours. And then have to ask yourself are you willing to pay the price?
 
I couldn't disagree more bitterly with both Ted and Mmarsh on pretty much everything that they said. Only one thing though:

mmarsh said:
The real reason the French were against Iraq was because they were afraid about muslim extremists hitting back on western targets. They were right, the bombing of Madrid and London (targets that Islamic militants had never hit before prior to Iraq) suddenly became center stage.

Come ooon, the real reason was that Paris had business for millions and millions with Baghdad, everybody knows that.
Not that your excuse would make France look any better: If they had been led by fear, well, what a nice and brave country they are.
 
mmarsh said:
Ted

French bashing is not new, its been going on about 3 years now. Most of it is done by people who never lived here and therefore have absolutely no clue what they are talking about. The funny thing is despite how badly certain (and it is just a minority) American's treat the French, the French are much more polite when it comes to Americans. Being dual-national, and having lived in both countries. I never once have had these stupid arguements about America with the French.

As for Socialism, Americans confuse socialism with communism. most of them cannot tell the difference between the two at all because the public education system is such s**t. You have people in America graduating High School who can barely read+write..

Ah of course, that's why Americans have disdain for France. We're all just a bunch of ignorant, stupid, yokels. And here I thought I had a legitimate opinion. Turns out I didn't get me a eduma'cation!

Typical.
 
Hahahahahaha, you do have to like the short sightedness we show one another. Can you image how hard it must be to agree on things if this had been going on for generations, thousands had died while discussing and land had been taken and re-taken.
The longer I participate on this forum the more I realise how hard it is to agree on things.
 
Oh this forum is one of the nicer ones i've had arguments and discussions on. Some others can be incredibly vicious ad hostile...

:eek:fftopic:
 
->
they are famous for: Pacifism and showing white flags once wars begin...

connard, take some history lessons.

->Gladius
You're wrong : the French government is not socialist, Chirac belongs to the right wing.
 
Good point Pierrot. By the way isn't the foreign legion French? A Belgian friend of mine had them next to him during the siege of Sarajevo, he told me some creepy stories about these guys.... But it wasn't showing white flags at the Serbs.
 
Ted said:
Good point Pierrot. By the way isn't the foreign legion French? A Belgian friend of mine had them next to him during the siege of Sarajevo, he told me some creepy stories about these guys.... But it wasn't showing white flags at the Serbs.

Oh no, those are the Spanish who show white flags at bad guys. The French just make business with them (smarter).
 
You see, America sticks its nose everytime and everywhere. They tend to jump and want a piece of everything. Where as France is using a much wiser tactic. Its not because being a coward, no, having the feeling of fear is mostly wisdom. France likes to sit on a chair far away trying to contemplate on things, choosong very well how to move its pawns...being very carefull on the things that have to deal with foreign relations..
 
MightyMacbeth said:
You see, America sticks its nose everytime and everywhere. They tend to jump and want a piece of everything. Where as France is using a much wiser tactic. Its not because being a coward, no, having the feeling of fear is mostly wisdom. France likes to sit on a chair far away trying to contemplate on things, choosong very well how to move its pawns...being very carefull on the things that have to deal with foreign relations..

You mean like they did with Hitler prior to WW II.
 
You mean like they did with Hitler prior to WW II.

Well, we all admire the American intervention regarding Hitler. They were the first in line to battle this evil..... And before you start writing about how you liberated us before the Russians would, I know that part of history. Luckily that is not the issue of this post, this one is on blaiming someone of inactivity whilst you did the same...
 
Italian Guy

Thats very easy for you to say, Italy was very lucky that it never had to fight in places such as Algeria. I dont deny that France (as did many others) had business interests in Iraq. But Algeria was a very nasty bit of business and the French learned alot about sticking its nose in places it doesnt belong. The Algerian war permanently ended French Imperialism. Thats why the population in France was overwhelmingly against the war, they didnt want to repeat the mistake of Algeria. Do you honestly think the population cares about about oil revenues? I don't think so. But in both France and the USA, people do care about their soldiers coming home in flag-draped boxes. If the French ever got the impression that their blood was spilt for oil, Chirac would have been lynched on the spot.

But Lets suppose hypothetically that your're right. Lets say France was in it for money. Do you really expect France to take up arms and spill the blood of its soldiers against a country its does good business with just so that this business be taken away by its American oil competitors such as Halliburton? If China wanted to invade Saudi Arabia (which is a dictatorship as well) for its oil, and asked for the USA's help to do it what do you think the USA would say? I thought so.

Ted

I was refering to terrorist attacks after the 2nd Iraq War not prior. The Bomb in Saint Michel in 1990 was 20 feet from my old apartment.
 
A very good example given by mmarsh about China and Saudi Arabia.

Besides, each country has its own experiances. France simply dont want to repeat the same mistakes over and over again. France is being more cautious of what to do what to fight, for who and for what. It might not want to appear like America going everywhere doing everything, and who knows, maybe for some other benefits. How many soldiers did America loose? how many loved ones have been gone? I do agree that it was for good, but I think they have served their reason. And why does it bother so much? France might have other plans..They dont have to stick their noses everywhere and appear like America. They are not very much like Britain, wanting to show of that its with America and all..
 
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