Foley's Follies ..........

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Chief Bones

Chief Bones

Forums Grumpy Old Man
Dateline: 10.02.06
Hastert is in trouble.
The party of 'Family Values" Speaker of the House (Hastert), has FINALLY admitted that he was informed of the Foley situation "earlier in the year" after having FIRST denied any knowledge of Foley's emails to a young male page. I noticed Hastert's clenched jaw at the end of a prepared statement by a Republican spokesman on C-SPAN, when reporters asked Hastert (as he was scooting out the door), why he won't answer ANY of their questions. The temperature must be finally getting to him.

One of our Local News reporters put it succinctly ... "It appears that it was more important for the Republicans to try to keep a House seat, than to deal with the problem". So much for taking the highroad ... the Family Values party blew their chance ... it took the story breaking in the MSM to get them to do anything.

Before you start tossing around accusations of 'partisanship', the story is telling itself very well WITHOUT a single Democrat really having to climb on their soapboxes, even though the Republicans deserve some of their own medicine. From the first time that GW ran for President, the mantra from the Republicans has been that they were the 'morals' party ... the "Family Values" party, and the Democrats weren't. Now, to find out that the Republicans seem to have done the very thing that they accused a Democratic President of doing (cover-up), is vindication for many people (not all of them die-hard Democrats).

It remains to be seen where this story is ultimately going ... it is up in the air. Investigations are being called for from BOTH sides of the aisle to find out who know what, when they knew it and what did they did when they found out (if anything). NOTE: A bi-partisan request.

I don't care whether you are from either party (or) not ... this is one story that better NOT be swept under the carpet (even if the boy's parents are uncomfortable with the investigation or not) ... the Congressmen and Congresswomen are responsible for protecting ALL of the pages that serve the House and IF they have dropped the ball, then someone else's head should roll (not just Congressman Foley's).

ABC NEWS reported tonight (10.2.06), that more pages have told them that Foley was NOT the only Congressman that was a predator ... I daresay that some of the charges that end up surfacing MAY very well be about Congressmen who have made passes at young girls.

It doesn't (and won't), change the lowlife factor any at all ... a pass at a young underage girl is just as slimy as a pass at a young boy. These kids (in most states), are underage for consensual sex of any kind.

Let's see where the NEXT shoe will drop ... and ... it WILL drop.


The fallout factor:
The Republicans have pushed this 'moral' party crap down everybody's throats, and NOW it's biting them in the arse. How does it feel to be on the other end of the 'moral disgust and indignation' power curve? They and the rest of the 'shame shame' and 'hallelujah' crew, are now having to protect and make excuses for some of their own political leaders. Hastert and some of the other leading Republicans knew about this crap months ago, and sat on their backsides and allowed this 'predator' free rein to continue to pursue his debased behaviour ... and ... DIDN'T report it to the authorities (or) even admonish him in any way. They didn't even hold a 'closed door' session to handle this in house. I guess that you have to be a Democratic President, and have a sexual liaison with a consenting ADULT (not your wife), before the Republicans can muster enough moral disgust to take action (or have a public disclosure that shames them into action that should have been taken the minute this behaviour came to their attention).

It shouldn't have required a media report to have gotten action.

WHAT A BUNCH OF POLITICAL HYPOCRITES AND POLITICAL COWARDS.

What do you think about this debacle?
 
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Oh, How the mighty have fallen...

This scandal is so embarrassing that today the arch-conservative Washington Times (run by cult leader who thinks hes Jesus reborn) called on Hastert to resign. I mean OUCH!

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/business/financial_markets/15664459.htm

I simply cannot believe how stupid the GOP House Leadership is. There is nothing hotter in the media than a sex scandal (a gay pedophila sex scandle to boot). Considering how Hastert persecuted Clinton over Lewinsky you'd think he'd know how damaging these things are, espically after a coverup is exposed. And lets face it, these scandals ALWAYS come out, sooner or later.

The GOP knew about this email A YEAR AGO. They could have simply pushed Foley out then, let Jeb Bush pick a replacement and by now the whole story would have been forgotten. Instead their incredible arrogence and quest for absolute power probably just cost the seat they were trying to protect (along with a few others).

I cannot imagine a greater election gift the GOP handed to the Dems that to have a gay pedophile scandal be given to them a month before the election.
 
All politicians are corrupt both politically and morally, there really is no true Republican or Democrat party today...

As Jesse Venture said it is time for a house cleaning and the people of America need to ge the brooms out...

In a nut shell they all need to go, we need new blood and we need to set term limits...We should also be voicing our dissatisfaction with congressman having their own retirement plans and not paying into social security...

On a side note...I think the world has just gone crazy....or perhaps it always has been just thanks to the advance in technology allowing for instant communication we are now more aware of the craziness that is happening...
 
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I agree Donkey, but I'll add one additional point.

No party should have a total monopoly of Power. When a political Party (Democrat or Republican) controls the White House, both Houses, and most of the governships that is just asking for problems.

When this happens, the ruling party becomes obsessed with keeping its power and rewarding those few that put them into power rather than focusing on good governance.

Just Look at the GOP. Over the 6 years the GOP has made it clear that the only special interest groups that they care about are its Big Business Interests and the Religous Right. Both groups are powerful but represent only small sectors of American society. The main interests of these 2 groups for example (SS privatization, tax cuts for the rich, end of medicare, bans on abortion, the persecution of homosexuals, bans of stem-cell research) run exactly contrary the opinions of ordinary Americans. Do they care? Absolutly Not.

When a party consistantly take the tiny minoritys interests over the vast majority that is almost certainly going to prevoke an angry backlash. This backlash can be delayed by various political smokescreens but sooner or later there will be hell to pay with the voters.

And thats why the GOP is such a mess right now.
 
The dems are in a very similar mess...

The whole government is a corrupt mess, possibly more so than ever in history....
 
this is no big deal. Clinton and other donkey party members did worse than this and he was the President not a regular congressman
 
phoenix80 said:
this is no big deal. Clinton and other donkey party members did worse than this and he was the President not a regular congressman
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Leave my name out of this :)

Yeah Bill didn’t exactly personify moral aptitude, however he was dealing with like aged indivduals. Not saying that wasnt wrong but it is a whole other story when children are involved.
 
I was 12 when I learned of priests running around raping kids. I vowed that if any of those freaks laided a hand on me in that manner I would beat the living :cens: outta them. At the age of 14 in middle school I had a really sexy teacher and could have had her way with me in a heart beat. And now at the age of 17 I feel the same way.

This aside I think this guy should be fired. Regardless if the other person is age 16 or 61 taking time off from work to have cyber sex with them proves that Foley has no business holding office. And if a teenager is attracted to a man (or women for that matter) that age... He/She needs serious help. :shock:
 
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Here's partisanship at it's worse .......

phoenix80 said:
this is no big deal. Clinton and other donkey party members did worse than this and he was the President not a regular congressman
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:sorry: Why did I JUST know that this would be the kind of crap P80 would post.

There's a BIG difference in a man having consensual sex with an ADULT, and a man carrying out a predatory attack against a teenage page, by using email to try to solicit sex from the young man. P80's problem is that he is so partisan that he PROBABLY really can't see a difference ... IT'S PARTISANSHIP AT IT'S WORSE.

For informational purposes:
Currently, the House of Representatives has 72 pages, while the Senate has 30. Page applicants must be in their junior year of high school for the year they wish to serve and must be at least 16 years old at that time.

What this means, is that almost every page (male & female), is under the age of 18 years of age.

They receive a salary, of which $400.00 a month is spent on housing and food. They MUST attend school every day. The House and Senate are both responsible for ensuring the education and the safety of ALL pages.

The ONLY way for them to become a page is to be sponsored by the page's Congressman or Senator.
 
Bill & Hillary and your money.

Mr. Ex President Clinton: I recently saw a bumper sticker that said, "Thank me, I voted for Clinton-Gore." So, I sat down and reflected on that, and I am sending my "Thank you" for what you have done, specifically:

1. Thank you for introducing us to Jennifer Flowers, Paula Jones, Monica Lewinsky, Dolly Kyle Browning, Kathleen Willey, and Juanita Broderick. Did I leave anyone out?

2. Thank you for teaching my 8 year old about oral sex. I had really planned to wait until he was a little older to discuss it with him, but now he knows more about it than I did as a senior in college.

3. Thank you for showing us that sexual harassment in the work place (especially the White House) and on the job is OK, and all you have to know is what the meaning of "it" is. It really is great to know that certain sexual acts are not sex, and one person may have sex while the other one does NOT have sex.

4. Thank you for reintroducing the concept of impeachment to a new generation and demonstrating that the ridiculous plot of the movie "Wag the Dog" could be plausible after all.

5. Thanks for making Jimmy Carter look competent, Gerald Ford look graceful, Richard Nixon look honest, Lyndon Johnson look truthful, and John Kennedy look moral.

6. Thank you for the 73 House and Senate witnesses who have pled the 5th Amendment and 17 witnesses who have fled the country to avoid testifying about Democratic campaign fund raising.

7. Thank you, for the 19 charges, 8 convictions, and 4 imprisonment's from the Whitewater "mess" and the 55 criminal charges and 32 criminal convictions (so far) in the other " Clinton " scandals.

8. Thanks also for reducing our military by half, "gutting" much of our foreign policy, and flying all over the world on "vacations" carefully disguised as necessary trips.

9 Thank you, also, for "finding" millions of dollars (I really didn't need it in the first place, and I can't think of a more deserving group of recipients for my hard-earned tax dollars) for all of your globe-trotting. I understand you, the family and your cronies have logged in more time aboard Air Force One than any other administration.

10. Now that you've left the White House, thanks for the 140 pardons of convicted felons and indicted felons-in-exile. We will love to have them rejoin society. (Not to mention the scores you pardoned while Governor of Arkansas)

11. Thanks also for removing the White House silverware. I'm sure that Laura Bush didn't like the pattern anyway. Also, enjoy the housewarming gifts you've received from your "friends."

12. Thanks to you and your staff in the West Wing of the White House for vandalizing and destroying government property on the way out. I also appreciate removing all of that excess weight ( China , silverware, linen, towels, ash trays, soap, pens, magnetic compass, flight manuals, etc.) out of Air Force 1. The weight savings means burning less fuel, thus less tax dollars spent on jet fuel. Thank you!

13. And finally, please ensure that Hillary enjoys the $8 million dollar advance for her "tell-all" book and you, Bill, the $10 million advance for your memoirs. Who says crime doesn't pay!

14. The last and most important point - thank you for forcing Israel to let Mohammed Atta go free. Terrorist pilot Mohammed Atta blew up a bus in Israel in 1986. The Israelis captured, tried and imprisoned him. As part of the Oslo agreement with the Palestinians in 1993, Israel had to agree to release so-called "political prisoners". However, the Israelis would not release any with blood on their hands. The American President at the time, Bill Clinton, and his Secretary of State, Warren Christopher, "insisted" that all prisoners be released. Thus Mohammed Atta was freed and eventually thanked the US by flying an airplane into Tower One of the World Trade Center . This was reported by many of the American TV networks at the time that the terrorists were first identified. It was censored in the US from all later reports.

Why shouldn't Americans know the real truth? What a guy!!

If you agree that the American public must be made aware of these facts, pass this on. God bless America and THANK YOU (once again) for spending my taxes so wisely and frugally.

SINCERELY,A US Citizen

PS.Please pass along a special thank you to Al Gore for "inventing" the Internet, without which I would not be able to send this wonderful, factual e-mail. AND THE REST OF THE STORY Hillary Rodham Clinton, as a New York State Senator, now comes under the "Congressional Retirement and Staffing Plan," which means that even if she never gets reelected, she STILL receives her Congressional salary until she dies. (Would it not be nice if all Americans were pension eligible after only 4 years?)

If Bill outlives her, he then inherits HER salary until HE dies. He is already getting his Presidential salary until he dies. If Hillary outlives Bill, she also gets HIS salary until she dies. Guess who pays for that? WE DO!

It's common knowledge that in order for her to establish NY! residency , they purchased a million dollar-plus house in upscale Chappaqua , New York . Makes sense. They are entitled to Secret Service protection for life. Still makes sense. Here is where it becomes interesting. Their mortgage payments hover at around $10,000 per month. BUT, an extra residence HAD to be built within the acreage to house the Secret Service agents. The Clinton's charge the Federal government $10,000 monthly rent for the use of that extra residence, which is just about equal to their mortgage payment. This means that we, the taxpayers, are paying the Clinton's salary, mortgage, transportation, safety and security, as well as the salaries is for their 12 man staff -- and, this is all perfectly legal!

When she runs for President, will you vote for her?
 
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Chief Bones said:
:sorry: Why did I JUST know that this would be the kind of crap P80 would post.

There's a BIG difference in a man having consensual sex with an ADULT, and a man carrying out a predatory attack against a teenage page, by using email to try to solicit sex from the young man. P80's problem is that he is so partisan that he PROBABLY really can't see a difference ... IT'S PARTISANSHIP AT IT'S WORSE.

For informational purposes:
Currently, the House of Representatives has 72 pages, while the Senate has 30. Page applicants must be in their junior year of high school for the year they wish to serve and must be at least 16 years old at that time.

What this means, is that almost every page (male & female), is under the age of 18 years of age.

They receive a salary, of which $400.00 a month is spent on housing and food. They MUST attend school every day. The House and Senate are both responsible for ensuring the education and the safety of ALL pages.

The ONLY way for them to become a page is to be sponsored by the page's Congressman or Senator.
Click to expand...

Where is your resources for this information...I believe making false accusations and not providing resources for your claims are in violation of the rules here...

I say this because I have yet to hear any of this from a News source....

We must keep in mind the difference between immoral and illegal...at this point it is only immoral...
 
Remove the vacuum from around your head .....

Donkey
Do you live in a vacuum? This story is being played out on every single channel in the United States ... you want references so ........

ABC NEWS ... CBS NEWS ... NBC NEWS ... CNN ... FOX ... MSNBC ... BBC ...
ETC, ETC, ETC, ETC.

C-SPAN house briefing ... Crier live ... Nancy Grace ... Larry King Live ... Hannity and Colmes.
Various mainstream 'news' specials ... Etc, Etc, Etc, Etc.


Evidently the ONLY place this story ISN'T playing out, is in your own home.

And just for your edification, on-line sex IS illegal, NOT just immoral (from one of the other pages involved in this scandal ... as reported on one of those 'references' you seem to be ignoring).
 
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Well even though I want to stay out of this I did trip over this report today that may (or may not) be relevant to this discussion.

http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7005075637

Former Chief Of Staff Says He Reported Foley 3 Years Ago

October 4, 2006 11:32 p.m. EST

Josephine Roque - All Headline News Staff Writer
Washington, DC (AHN) - Former Rep. Mark Foley's ex chief of staff said that he informed House Speaker Dennis Hastert's aides more than three years ago regarding Foley's behavior.
Kirk Fordham was Foley's top aide till January 2004. He told the AP, he had, "more than one conversation with senior staff at the highest level of the House of Representatives asking them to intervene."
Fordham had recently resigned as staff chief for lawmaker, New York Rep. Thomas Reynolds, who is also involved in the scandal. He had informed Hastert about Foley last spring.
"What Kirk Fordham said did not happen," Scott Palmer, Hastert's chief of staff told a spokesman.
"I think I could have given some good advice here, which is, You have to be curious, you have to ask all the questions you can think of," said Rep. Roy Blunt, a member of the leadership. "You absolutely can't decide not to look into activities because one individual's parents don't want you to."
Republican Rep. Ron Lewis canceled the invitation for Hastert to join him at a fundraiser next week.
"I'm taking the speaker's words at face value," Lewis told the AP. "I have no reason to doubt him. But until this is cleared up, I want to know the facts. If anyone in our leadership has done anything wrong, then I will be the first in line to condemn it."
Florida Republican, Foley, 52, had abruptly resigned after the issue of the sexually explicit electronic messages sent to teenage male pages had surfaced.
He is now in an alcohol rehabilitation facility.
 
Some REAL facts about Hastert and the Foley scandal ...

Lets take a look at some REAL facts:

Fact 1. The ‘Foley’ story was disclosed by the MSM, NOT by the House Republicans (or) the Republican Leadership.

Fact 2. Hastert and leading Republicans had information about the ‘predator’ in their midst ALMOST 3 years ago and did nothing.

Fact 3. The House Republican leadership thought it was MORE important to protect a Republican seat than to deal with the situation.

Fact 4. The ‘moral’ "Family Values” party seems to place the value of a Republican seat above the principle of protection of a group of teenagers they were responsible for protecting. The House and Senate are in the position of exercising an ‘in loco parentis’ control of the pages.

Fact 5. Hastert denied having ANY knowledge of Foley’s transgressions INITIALLY, and only acknowledged knowing about the situation AFTER the MSM divulged information about how long Foley had been under the protection of the Republican leadership.

Fact 6. It is absolutely ironic that the ‘moral’ “Family Values” party has been disclosed as a morally bankrupt party, where family values are NOT as important as protecting their Republican majority in the house.

Fact 7. CBS NEWS reported that information coming from Congressional Pages, indicate that Foley was NOT the ONLY congressman they were ‘warned’ about … we are NOW waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Fact 8. Former pages have disclosed that they were uncomfortable enough around Foley, that when one of them was invited to his Washington DC home, he took a friend along to protect himself. What made them both uncomfortable, was the fact that both of them had received IM's and emails from the congressman and described them as 'explicit'. They didn't turn in Foley because "a sixteen or seventeen year old DOESN'T do something like that in Washington DC".

It is absolutely evident that protecting young teenagers from a deviant predator, didn’t weigh very much in the Republican’s view of what was/is important and are ONLY NOW doing something about this debacle after having been shamed into it.







Before someone accuses me of being partisan, let me tell you I would be making the very same comments, IF the Democrats were guilty of this infraction and violation of the public trust. IF we find out that a Democratic Congressman is the ‘other shoe’ in this whole debacle, then I will also call for their head on a platter.



Before someone pipes up with a request for a reference, all I can tell you is to do a little tv surfing between channels and you will hear the same information I posted discussed adnauseum.
 
Chief Bones said:
Donkey
Do you live in a vacuum? This story is being played out on every single channel in the United States ... you want references so ........

ABC NEWS ... CBS NEWS ... NBC NEWS ... CNN ... FOX ... MSNBC ... BBC ...
ETC, ETC, ETC, ETC.

C-SPAN house briefing ... Crier live ... Nancy Grace ... Larry King Live ... Hannity and Colmes.
Various mainstream 'news' specials ... Etc, Etc, Etc, Etc.


Evidently the ONLY place this story ISN'T playing out, is in your own home.

And just for your edification, on-line sex IS illegal, NOT just immoral (from one of the other pages involved in this scandal ... as reported on one of those 'references' you seem to be ignoring).
Click to expand...

What he did as for now was not ILLEGAL but apparently you didn’t pay close enough attention to those above news agencies reports. I ask for your references from where you made your opinions (statements) for what I have read and saw so far is in contradiction to some of what you state. (mind you not all)

Check the laws depending on what state you are in online sex is perfectly legal with someone over the age of 16. Thus the difference in morals and legality you are confusing.

-side note

For where I have stated that what he has done and what has been investigated so far as not being legal, thus why they didn’t bring any charges against him back in July of 2004, has been backed up by a reference quote and link.

I am all for discussion on this topic and in no way do I support of this congressman’s actions. However a discussion filled with false information and misunderstandings is irresponsible, leading to fiction being seen as non-fiction.

So I ask of you to show me where you gathered your information and in turn your response so far from satisfactory, thank you.
 
As far as phone sex being illegal, here's one of Monica Lewensky's testsments.

http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/carl.html

"And there's another tidbit which could prove evidentiary - and supremely embarrassing. On Thursday reports surfaced that, according to Lewinsky's taped account, Clinton would call her in the wee hours of the night, sometimes as late as 2 a.m., and the two would engage in long sessions of phone sex. Believe it or not, that's not the embarrassing part. The real problem here could be one of the gifts that Lewinsky gave to Clinton, which, according to Newsweek, was a "sexually provocative audiotape". Retail availability of erotic audio recordings would seem to be somewhat limited, since the market is generally more interested in video sex. Was Monica's sexually provocative tape a homemade production? Was it perhaps a recording of her and the President of the United States engaging in their own phone sex? All gifts from Lewinsky to Clinton and vice versa are now under federal subpoena, since they constitute evidence of the President's possible perjury."
 
Missileer

The problem isnt the phone sex, there's nothing wrong with that. The problem is Phone Sex with a minor which is illegal in most places. (Lewd Act in the presence of a minor). Although the legal definition varies from state to state.
 
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mmarsh said:
Missileer

The problem isnt the phone sex, there's nothing wrong with that. The problem is Phone Sex with a minor which is illegal most places.
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That is the grey area which varies from state to state....Most states 16 is the cut off limit... However some get even more complex than that...

As seen here
http://www.ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm

US states are at the bottom and you can click on the state for the statute...

Further dicussion of the term Minor
A minor is someone under 16 under 18 under 21 depending on what you are talking about (varies even more depending on what country you are in)...In other words the term minor when used in law is by definition; not of legal age.
 
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Not in a vacuum ...

Donkey said:
That is the grey area which varies from state to state....Most states 16 is the cut off limit... However some get even more complex than that...

As seen here
http://www.ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm

US states are at the bottom and you can click on the state for the statute...

Further dicussion of the term Minor
A minor is someone under 16 under 18 under 21 depending on what you are talking about (varies even more depending on what country you are in)...In other words the term minor when used in law is by definition; not of legal age.
Click to expand...

This is some of what is NOW being investigated. Where your argument breaks down, is that some of the charges that are being looked at, fall under 'federal' statutes NOT under 'state' statutes. Most of the 'sex' crime federal statutes, set an 'age of consent' at 18 years of age.

I am setting here in front of my television set at 1345 hours local (NOT in a vacuum), and this whole mess is being discussed ... NEW revelations are surfacing as I set here (at present we are waiting for Speaker Hastert to make some 'breaking' major announcement) ... so AGAIN, I reiterate what I posted before. IF you are so in need of references, tune into almost ANY channel on your television dial, and you can receive the same reports that I do (almost on the quarter hour).
 
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