Firearms Possession discussion (in response to yet another US shooting)

Capt Frogman

Brit Pack (Troop Commander)
Bulls**t. If someone wants something bad enough, they will find a way to get it.

If you care to read one of my previous posts:

The thing is though Hawky, no matter what measures you put in place, you'll never stop the wrong people getting hold of firearms.

If you're determined enough to get hold of a firearm then you eventually will. It's as simple as that.

Quite why yanks are allowed to legally possess assault rifles is beyond me.

In the UK firearms possession is very strict, yet we don't have many (if any recently) incidents where someone's illegally obtained a firearm and carried out a mass shooting. Why would the US be any different?

But hey! Let's go ahead and outlaw guns and line the pockets of illegal arms dealers even more. They have to make a living, too, right? *eye roll*

Really? That's not the case in the UK.... :roll:

Blaming inanimate objects because someone used them to commit an atrocious act is ridiculous.

It's ridiculous? Have a read of this and look at the number of innocent people that have been murdered:

http://www.nycrimecommission.org/initiative1-shootings.php

Why have we had 3 mass shootings in 2012 and 2011? Please please please explain this for me?

Why do we keep having these incidents? Is it because some Americans are mentally unhinged? It rarely happens in any other civilised countries?
 
I was reading some truly disturbing comments on CNN - those hard-line members of the National Rifle Association are saying that if the janitors or teachers had been allowed to "conceal-carry" a firearm - they then might have been able to stop him.

I have issues with this, the first, is the potential for accidents to happen. Johnny janitor forgets to safety his weapon that morning, there is a ND and he shoots himself in the foot. The school goes into lockdown for hours while somebody tries to figure out what happened. Or, worse, someone else is hurt (or killed) because of the said negligent discharge.

Secondly, what if the said janitor/teacher one day snaps - suffering from job stress, problems at home, whatever. More people die. Or overreacts to a situation (be it a fight, whatever), and decides that rather than calming it and resolving the situation peacefully and without violence - like any other teacher would - he fires a shot off in the air. That scares the crap out of the kids surrounding the fight, the fighting pair or group - and what if that round went through the floor? Hitting and wounding a kid in the floor above?

Thirdly, Johnny janitor/teacher, with that weapon in their hands, who is an inexperienced shooter - suddenly becomes an expert fecking marksman? I think not. He/She would do what most of us - those who are untrained in firing firearms would do, in that situation, panic and not be able to use the weapon when the time came - that hesitation is all it would take. And either become a casualty, or a hostage.

I do not know what the answer is to the gun problem in the United States. But surely it has to begin with addressing the issue of gun control... and making drastic changes so that nothing such as yesterdays terrible events are less frequent. But, as Frogman said, if a person wants to do harm with a weapon, and wants to get their hands on one, he'll find a way.
 
You are not going to change,the mentality of Americans, on this issue.
They have guns, and we drink Tea.
 
I found this a while ago, I think it is applicable.
more_shootings_zpsb9c907d8.jpg


The reality is that all this analysis is pointless as many have pointed out, the process is...
Day 1) Express grief, shock. bewilderment.
Day 2) Offer support.
Day 3) Ask what can be done to prevent this sort of thing happening again and vow to solve the problem.
Day 4) Bury the dead.
Day 5) Forget about it until the next time.

Nothing will change because the US is not really prepared to accept the solution so in a week or two we will be commenting the next killings.
 
I was reading some truly disturbing comments on CNN - those hard-line members of the National Rifle Association are saying that if the janitors or teachers had been allowed to "conceal-carry" a firearm - they then might have been able to stop him.

I have issues with this, the first, is the potential for accidents to happen. Johnny janitor forgets to safety his weapon that morning, there is a ND and he shoots himself in the foot. The school goes into lockdown for hours while somebody tries to figure out what happened. Or, worse, someone else is hurt (or killed) because of the said negligent discharge.

Secondly, what if the said janitor/teacher one day snaps - suffering from job stress, problems at home, whatever. More people die. Or overreacts to a situation (be it a fight, whatever), and decides that rather than calming it and resolving the situation peacefully and without violence - like any other teacher would - he fires a shot off in the air. That scares the crap out of the kids surrounding the fight, the fighting pair or group - and what if that round went through the floor? Hitting and wounding a kid in the floor above?

Thirdly, Johnny janitor/teacher, with that weapon in their hands, who is an inexperienced shooter - suddenly becomes an expert fecking marksman? I think not. He/She would do what most of us - those who are untrained in firing firearms would do, in that situation, panic and not be able to use the weapon when the time came - that hesitation is all it would take. And either become a casualty, or a hostage.

I do not know what the answer is to the gun problem in the United States. But surely it has to begin with addressing the issue of gun control... and making drastic changes so that nothing such as yesterdays terrible events are less frequent. But, as Frogman said, if a person wants to do harm with a weapon, and wants to get their hands on one, he'll find a way.
So they're better off trapped with an armed nut?? Seriously????? Always some nit picking what if that might happen. An armed administrator ended a gun situation in aPearl River (Miss or La.?) school before the Gun Free School Zone Act was passed. Obviously the GFSZ doesn't work.The Principal was killed when she tried to take him down with bare hands. My understanding is any Israeli school employee can carry & not much happens in those schools
Where the discussion of knife controll in China?????
 
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No they are better off without the armed nut in the first place.
There is no doubt that there will always be crazy bastards somewhere who will lose control and kill it is not a situation peculiar to the USA what is however is the frequency of these instances.

The NRA's answer is the equivalent of putting an ambulance at the bottom of the cliff, it wont stop people people going off the cliff or even put a dent in the number of dead at the bottom, the answer you need to find is how to prevent people going off the cliff in the first place.
 
Where the discussion of knife controll in China?????

China doesn't have regular massacres like the US of A does. Its as simple as that.

I've posted a link that lists all of massacres yet I've had no response to it.

I've also had no response to my question as to why America has regular massacres unlike any other country.

Its as if you American's want to pretend it doesn't happen so often and bury your heads in the sand rather than admit a problem and do something about it.
 
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Australia had something like 17 mass shooting Incidents after WW2 mostly from the 80s onward. We have had 0 since the gun ban in 1996... Just saying. I don't like the idea of the ban but they do work.
 
China doesn't have regular massacres like the US of A does. Its as simple as that.
China has had a number of mass stabing attacks at schools.
Australia had something like 17 mass shooting Incidents after WW2 mostly from the 80s onward. We have had 0 since the gun ban in 1996... Just saying. I don't like the idea of the ban but they do work.
Seems though the gun crime rates in the UK & Au have gone up since strict controlls went on.

One thing that's being ignored is that all or most of these mass shootings have been done by people who are/were being given psycotropic drugs to treat A.D.D. The numbers of kids given A.D.D. treatment in the US has exploded since the Fed. Govt. started paying School Districts for the number of kids on A.D.D. meds.

I'm for abolishing the Gun Free School Zone Act, just creates a pool of defenceless victims.
 
I'm not even going to get into this.

It's always the same, "Help me I'm morbidly obese, I badly need your help,.... but not at the expense of actually going on a diet and getting a bit of exercise"

There are loony lobby groups pushing for "open carry" as a right for every citizen, and of course they have their catch cry that goes something like " An armed society is a polite society" and we all saw how well that worked out in the "Wild (Polite) West"

Yep there will be a massive outcry and much weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth,............. then it will all go the same way as on every previous occasion, and precisely nothing will be done.

'Tis easier to sacrifice a few children every now and then, than to risk upsetting the NRA and losing campaign contributions.
 
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2 options:


Armed victims or

Disarmed psychopaths.


Gun crime has been on the decline in Aus since the ban. There has been recent rises (still lower than pre ban) due to organised crime. Though these crimes have not been directed at the public.
 
China has had a number of mass stabing attacks at schools.

Yes, about 20 deaths in 2 years:

http://news.msn.com/us/timeline-deadliest-attacks-at-us-schools-and-colleges

How many Americans have died this year alone from gun massacres? At least 50?

Seems though the gun crime rates in the UK & Au have gone up since strict controlls went on.

Yes, but we don't have massacres and gun related deaths are nowhere near the US level.

Gun related deaths per 100,000 in the UK - 0.22 (2009)
Gun related deaths per 100,000 in the US - 2.98 (2009)

Our gun crime rates are nothing like America's either.

One might say American's are born to worship a gun.

Answer me this. Just why do all civilians need access to assault rifles?
 
*yawn* Why is it always foreigners who think they know best what America needs and should do on every topic, especially this one? -SMH- I'm done with this topic. I'm sick to death of listening to close-minded idiots, who think they know everything when they really know nothing, repeating the same BS over and over and over.

One more thing before I take my leave....if you haven't read Manson's article that was written right after the Columbine shooting, I think you should. I'll even be nice (which is nearly impossible for me) and post the link.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Music/comments/14uww5/marilyn_mansons_commentary_for_rolling_stone/
 
There are psychopaths in every country, yet it's only in America that they carry out regular massacres....


Actually no, Norway, Finland, Holland, and Germany have faced "massacres" too. Canada had a school shooting, just a few weeks after Columbine, even if the amount of casualties were quite low at that event.

If this shooting spree does open the policy window in the US, I think it is too late to realistically change anything. The amount of firearms owned by civilians and/or available in the civilian market are about 250-280 million (ATF) The amount of legal firearms owner are about 150 million.

The data about firearms related crimes in the US are declining and it has done that the latest ten years. The data is also describing what kind of firearms used, the majority of crimes committed with firearms is handguns. Semiautomatic rifles used in homicides are quite low. (FBI)

I don't completely view this as a gun problem, it is a social problem. How shall the society catch people with major social problems? How can the society reduce their access to firearms? Who shall catch them? Do socio-economic factors contribute to the problem?
 
Answer me this. Just why do all civilians need access to assault rifles?
I agree on this point...... there is no need for owning an assult weapon.. but here a man needs a weapon to hunt with, a weapon to shoot fowl and a weapon to plink with... where in your country can you take a .22 and go blast away at cans and such...... anytime you wanted... like I said before I have been a shooter since I was 9. I like the fact that I will hit you somewhere out to 400m with iron sights... it is a skill, like playing the piano or guitar...

cides out west here the wagon train still gets attacked by them pesky redskins... best keep your powder dry and hold onto your topknot
 
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