finally Chinese Second generation IFV

it is pretty much is

according to rumour, China uses clothes, shoes and stuff bought a small number of BMP3 and its technology (especially its fire control and gun fired missile part)


it seems now CHina has digested the tech well
however, the fatal weakness of BMP3 must not be forgotten, such as weak protection (not even have bottom protection against mines like Bradley)

we r not sure how will Chinese deal with that
 
reportedly an airborne ifv

there's a pic with these on a transport train heading for an exercise..however with no turret attached, guess they're using it as a modular platform
 
queens_ranger said:
reportedly an airborne ifv

there's a pic with these on a transport train heading for an exercise..however with no turret attached, guess they're using it as a modular platform
Click to expand...

a bit different

airborn one is using 30mm gun only, plus an anti-tank missile

the second gen IFV has 100mm +30 mm

but as the new version of Kanwa Defence Review points out:

the IFV is going towards the direction of arming with sophisticated anti-tank missile, rather than bigger gun

but chinese one has the gun-fired missle with a range of over 5000m (newer version 7500m according to KANWA)

still, it is far behind on night-vision tech and fire-control and protection system compared to Bradley
 
yey i copy again..... well i guess Russia will have a good time spotting its weaknesses and dont say that its chines that are behind m2 and stuff, its Russia.

Tell me a single vecahle that isnt a copy?
 
it takes time and skill to even copy too


even if tomorrow U.S gives u a f-22, and its design map,

u will need like 10 years to build one, and another 10 year to know how to innovate and build a better one



China is just too far behind, it is pretty amazing already that chinese can copy things in like 3 years and build a better one, and start its own

like t99G (the chinese leopord named by Kanwa Defence), after copying the first generation of t-55 and t-65 and partly innovate the second generation of t-80 t-85s, China finally produces its own pretty much a world -class tank
 
according to kanwa

99 is t-98G, maybe adding up a new 1500 hp engines something like that

99G is added with the new front armors look like Leopord 2A6 now

and it maybe 55 ton something, which is still a big light compare to western tanks, that means t-99G's protection is still not that great
 
CSmaster said:
according to kanwa

99 is t-98G, maybe adding up a new 1500 hp engines something like that

99G is added with the new front armors look like Leopord 2A6 now

and it maybe 55 ton something, which is still a big light compare to western tanks, that means t-99G's protection is still not that great
Click to expand...

it looks alot like t-72.
 
Snauhi said:
yey i copy again..... well i guess Russia will have a good time spotting its weaknesses and dont say that its chines that are behind m2 and stuff, its Russia.

Tell me a single vecahle that isnt a copy?
Click to expand...

The Delorean. :lol:

Ok seriously, China and the Chinese take a lot of heat for "copying" things but you have to understand the culture and the education system in all fairness.

The culture is such that innovation does not pay off. You spend money and time on R&D and then the design is ripped off and used by someone else and you lose your tailfeathers in the market.

This phenomenon is owed to their education system. Beginning in grade school they are taught to "copy". Their learning is teacher centred, not student centred. What this means in practical terms is that the teacher will pose a question and the students will then wait for the teacher to give them the answer. The students then write the answer and repeat the answer. They are to repeat back the answer verbatim when questioned thus in the future. Changing the answer, adding to the answer, subtracting from the answer or questioning the answer is not just simply discouraged, to do thus results in active persecution of the student. The students are not punished for copying other students work because throughout their schooling the goal is to get them to all know THE ONE correct answer and this is the goal, how you get there does not matter.

In light of this it makes sense that the Chinese not only tolerate but encourage people to copy the design of things that function well. Why fix it if it aint broke?? Why pay for R&D when you can copy it? Why pay for the patent when you can copy it? I am not defending or attacking this but thought it would be more readily understood when viewed from this perspective because it is so very different from the Western way of doing things.
 
Snauhi said:
CSmaster said:
according to kanwa

99 is t-98G, maybe adding up a new 1500 hp engines something like that

99G is added with the new front armors look like Leopord 2A6 now

and it maybe 55 ton something, which is still a big light compare to western tanks, that means t-99G's protection is still not that great
Click to expand...

it looks alot like t-72.
Click to expand...

lol.....

give u two pictures

http://www.anyboard.net/gov/mil/anyboard/uploads/Type98G_20056102249120.jpg
http://tuku.military.china.com/military/pic/2005-06-22/1020487_403847621.jpg

these are 99s, are they looking like t-72 a bit?
 
CSmaster said:
Snauhi said:
CSmaster said:
according to kanwa

99 is t-98G, maybe adding up a new 1500 hp engines something like that

99G is added with the new front armors look like Leopord 2A6 now

and it maybe 55 ton something, which is still a big light compare to western tanks, that means t-99G's protection is still not that great
Click to expand...

it looks alot like t-72.
Click to expand...

lol.....

give u two pictures

http://www.anyboard.net/gov/mil/anyboard/uploads/Type98G_20056102249120.jpg
http://tuku.military.china.com/military/pic/2005-06-22/1020487_403847621.jpg

these are 99s, are they looking like t-72 a bit?
Click to expand...

yeah just remove the reactive armour.

T-72
t72-4.JPG


Leo6
leo2_04.jpg


Type-99
1020487_403847621.jpg


the only thing that looks different is back of the turret that is M1 like.
 
CSmaster said:
http://tuku.military.china.com/military/pic/2005-06-22/1020487_403847621.jpg

look again

according to kanwa

t-99g is over 1 meter longer than t-72m

and it got 1500hp engine, a mysterious laser dazzler, an on-board computer and much bigger turret, with Leopord 2A6 like armor


make sure u look at the picture carefully
Click to expand...

yeah , but look at the gun and at the hull.. and it doesent look like Leo6.

And it can be an upgraded T-72
 
CSmaster said:
http://tuku.military.china.com/military/pic/2005-06-22/1020487_403847621.jpg

the 45 degree front armor

every tank looks pretty much the same in ur theory

much bigger 1500hp engine, different armor (possibley uranium according to kanwa) , 55 ton heavy, laser dazzler,

different fire -control,
Click to expand...

Yeah, but you can change everything on a tank, but it will still remain like the old one. The armour is probably from Israel, and firecontrols built with russian help.

From the second look it looks like ukrainen T-84 Oplot

http://www.morozov.com.ua/images/oplot7l.jpg
http://www.morozov.com.ua/images/oplot6l.jpg

http://www.morozov.com.ua/images/opl-drwp3l.gif
 
wrong,

according to Kanwa, fire control is china's own 611 insititude's hunter-killer contorl system, also used in MBT 2000 sold to pakistan


armor is china's either 4th generation explosive or 2rd composite or 3 rd DU armor according to Kanwa, never heard of something like Isreal armor sold to china
 
Still arguing that the Type-98/99 is a T-72 derivative again?? :lol:

Snauhi, i'd like to see some sources, there have been no reports of Israel's or Russia's assistance in the Type-98/99. It wasn't even mentioned in the Senate's Annual report on the military capabilities of China 2003. Perhaps you can enlighten us with some articles that can proove that?


The Type-98 is surely a post-Gulf War tank unlike that of the T-72. It has an angular box-like turret though it has a similar chassis and hull of the T-72. So there you have it, it's not purely a T-72.

The early versions of the Type 98 uses an ideginious 120mm Cannon despite early reports that the smoothbore technology might have been built under Russian Licensing. The later ones now use a 125mm that fires a Russian Designed A-11 ATGM however it is currently replaced by Chinese DU rounds.

CSMaster is right that the Type-98 frontal armor is protected with Composite Armor and Explosive Reactive Armor if needed, so I will not further argue with that.

According to Sinodefence.com, the Type-90/MBT2000 is the first attempt to differentiate from Russian Designs since most Chinese tanks resemble it's Russian Counterparts. Instead the Type-98's derivative is the MBT2000 rather than the T-72.

Thus speaking of different idealogies, the Chinese prefer to use JD-3 Integrated rangerfinder/warning/self-defence device instead of the Russian defensive systems such as DROZD, DROZD-2, and Arena, two very different approaches of handling incoming threats.

LASTLY, this is NOT an art contest gentlemen. Agreed?
 
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