FIFA World Cup anyone? - Page 25




 
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July 10th, 2006  
Ollie Garchy
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Italian Guy
Lol you guys are cracking me up...Now stop whining and put your leotard back on (except for your players who will have to put their helmets on).
1. Everybody does it. Of course all other teams have degrees of the same type of behaviour. But this is an issue of degree. English players, for example, avoid excessive diving because their public fries them if they do. Other nations are somewhat similar. Italy is not. Italian society finds diving, spitting, kicking and cheating a GOOD thing. Winning is everything. And, I agree. I wish the Germans would have starting breaking Italian legs in the last minute of overtime. A few red cards...but a penalty shootout. That is how you win. The Italian way is the right way.

2. Italy and toughness. Sure. Ok. But Rehagel-football (Greece-style) is boring. 4-5-1 is just boring football. Other teams were guilty of the same thing, and this WC suffered for it. Why, for example, did France play one striker? Incredible when you have Trezeguet in the ranks. Greece won the EC. Italy won the WC. Connection? In any case, Italy did not win the games in old Brazilian fashion. Italy played Italian football. They clawed their way to victory.

Italians are now talking about the beautiful football and finesse of their team. I am sorry, but at least countries like Germany or England have the decency to point out flaws and look honestly at their teams. All I saw from Italy were fouls (some extreme), cheating (very extreme) and bizarre behaviour like rubbing other player's butts and pulling on their nipples. The good playing -- from a side capable of so much more -- was on the minimal side.

My point: Other teams should now play the same dirty football. Toss decency out the window. In any case, Portugal's diving team is already prepared for the olympics. And there are others.

If there had been good solid playing, just a bit more fairness, good scoring, and some sense of humility, I would not have written these posts of condemnation. But all I saw was a dirty team playing crappy defensive football and then bragging all over the place.

I know, Italian football is the best. That 1:0 victory over Australia was done in thrilling fashion. And, the 1:1 against the USA was another case of brilliant football. And I know that the Italian team wanted to play overtime against the Germans, and therefore did not score 3 or 4 goals during regular play. And sitting back for about an hour against France, that was also tactical in nature. Good stuff, guys. Great football.
July 10th, 2006  
mmarsh
 
 
Italian Guy


If it was just the game last night, you might have a point to say its sour grapes. But the thing is there was a certain pattern that as loki says wasnt always fair. We saw this against the USA, against Australia, against Germany, against France. Honest I was against Italy in all those matches because I didnt think they showed good sportsmanship.

Your also wrong to say all teams take dives. First of all you are defending unsportsmanlike play, and second of all there is a major difference between a certain player fishing for a penalty and a deliberate team tactic. You wrong to say all teams do it because they simply dont. Thats totally wrong. The worst 2 offenders this World Cup were Italy and Portugal. If Italys opponents pulled half the dirty tricks the Italians did you would be screaming murder.

About the Zidane penalty. That was a close call it could have gone either way. Lets be honest, you woundn't have complained if it were the other way around. I dont remember you complaining about that terrible call made against Australia, which cost them the game. The Italy player took a dive, the ref fell for it, and the Socceroos got robbed of their WC chance. I haven't found a single newspaper anywhere that thought the penalty was justified. Even supposing that you are right, it was simply a bad call, not a dive on Zidane part. Refs will make mistakes, some will be in your favor others not, its part of the game.

Insults, again you are defending poor sportsmanship. Insults should not be tolerated on the pitch by any side, espically racial insults. Its not how the game is supposed to be played, and its not fair play. Perhaps its permitted in Italian football, but most countries don't play Italian football.

I dont think Italians play bad football, on the contrary they are a good team espically on defense. But I agree with our German collegues that some of the tactics they use are objectionable.

***There is a story yesterday in the NYTimes that the NY Red Bulls will attempt to hire Zidane.
July 10th, 2006  
Italian Guy
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmarsh
You are defending unsportsmanlike play
Quote:
Originally Posted by loki
Italian society finds diving, spitting, kicking and cheating a GOOD thing. Winning is everything. That is how you win. The Italian way is the right way



Ok, you still haven't convinced me. Anyone else thinks Italy didn't deserve the victory?
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July 10th, 2006  
mmarsh
 
 
IG

Again this is what Ollie was saying. In todays French Newspapers l'Equipe and Le Parisien they absolutly condemn Zidane Headbutt. The have said the red card was completely justified. I'll post the articles if you can read French. France coach Raymond Domench said the samething. The French as with the English are capable of introspection, when they screwup they admit it. They dont try and justify bad sportsmanship like you are doing now.

Unlike the Italian newspapers who had the nerve to beg for clemency on de Rossi for the McBride Foul.

Remember that? That was a real Italian sportsmanship at its finest.



July 10th, 2006  
Italian Guy
 
 
I do not understand how an educated and wise person like you keeps purporting a single newspaper to signify it represents the spirit of a whole people. ("The NYTimes is reporting that Materzzi used a racial slur and if thats the case there should have been 2 red cards" So you trust the NYT uh? Suggest you to do some research on google.... NYT lies etc- "The French as with the English are capable of introspection, when they screwup they admit it. They dont try and justify bad sportsmanship like you are doing now". =====> "Whatever the case, Zidane shouldnt have headbutted him, but Materzzi isnt completely innocent either" This is the same person speaking, mmarsh himself! Before the French do not try to justify bad sportsmanship, then well uhm ahem afterall he had been provoked and Materazzi insulted him though we can't know if he insulted him and Materazzi used racial slur though we still cant know what he said and after all if Zidane did it he wasn't completely unjustified....
"The sports commentator said that the Italians had been pestering Zidane all night, they wanted to get Zidane out of the game, hook or by crook."
Yeah, the sport commentators said that? That is a trustable source.
And on top of that, I thought in the developed world the times where a whole people was pictured as rude, aggressive, unfair, deceptive, "spit-loving", cheating, well I thought those times were gone.
Wasn't country-bashing forbidden by the rules?

This is part of what has been said against my country on this thread (not the team, but the whole people):

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie Garchy
If in doubt, mobilize the Italian press to help. Yes, Germany had the 12th man. But Italy had much more. They used their exceptional skills to manipulate officials, searched for ways to generate red cards off the field, and even mobilized domestic resources to pressure fifa and manufacture a victory.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmarsh
The French as with the English are capable of introspection, when they screwup they admit it. They dont try and justify bad sportsmanship..... ("Whatever the case, Zidane shouldnt have headbutted him, but Materzzi isnt completely innocent either")


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie Garchy
Italian society finds diving, spitting, kicking and cheating a GOOD thing. Winning is everything
Yeah and we own all the banks, we are greedy and manipulate it all. Someone call Goebbels, please.
July 10th, 2006  
mmarsh
 
 
Well the NY Times is the most respected Newspaper in the United States, perhaps in the world. And because its not terribly endearing to Conservative Ideology (because they are the only ones who complain about the NYT) doesnt make it wrong. The NYT isnt perfect, but name me a newspaper that is. They have all printed stories that were incorrect, the difference was the the NYT actually took responsibility both times it happened and fired the people responsible. Thats far more than I could say for the conservative media, which continuely posts articles that are wrong. I trust the NYT for more than any google search then you can come up with. The reason I use 1 source is because its 11 am in New York (I'm not in France) and I have had the time to read other papers.

Yeah, the sport commentators said that? That is a trustable source.

I think so. These were American sportcasters on ABC (and the Americans were more pro-Italy). You explain it then. Why did Zidane walk away then spin around suddenly and headbutt another player? Do you think he wanted to sobatoge his own team? Its an undeniable conclusion Materzzi said something to prevoke him. As for "rude, aggressive, unfair, deceptive, "spit-loving", cheating", I didnt write all of that. My critcism is Italian Football not the country or the people. I think the Italian style of play is unsporting, and some of the tactics they use unfair. And I really dont like they way their players take dives. To me thats cheating. So no, I didnt write anything that could be construed as "country bashing".
July 10th, 2006  
Italian Guy
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmarsh
Well the NY Times is the most respected Newspaper in the United States, perhaps in the world. And because its not terribly endearing to Conservative Ideology (because they are the only ones who complain about the NYT) doesnt make it wrong. The NYT isnt perfect, but name me a newspaper that is. They have all printed stories that were incorrect, the difference was the the NYT actually took responsibility both times it happened and fired the people responsible. Thats far more than I could say for the conservative media, which continuely posts articles that are wrong. I trust the NYT for more than any google search then you can come up with. The reason I use 1 source is because its 11 am in New York (I'm not in France) and I have had the time to read other papers
Mmarsh I'm not treating you as a fanatic or anything, It only seemed to me you were using newspapers as to represent the character of a whole people, or its ideas, or its attitudes. Because newspapers are the furthest thing from the spirit of a people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmarsh
Why did Zidane walk away then spin around suddenly and headbutt another player? Do you think he wanted to sobatoge his own team? Its an undeniable conclusion Materzzi said something to prevoke him
I never denied that could be a possible explanation. Happens everywhere. I suggest you to watch most of the soccer games in Europe or South America and you'll find out players saying bad stuff to their adversaries. It's part and parcel of the psychological games. Players are trained to hold their nerves and failure to do so results in lower performances on the field. The point here is you do not know what Materazzi said, and at present I cannot say that Materazzi said anything offensive or to what degree it was offensive. Zidane lost his nerve and hit the Italian with a strong, hard headbutt and I tell you I know thousands of normal people who do not resort to that violence even if they're told bad stuff or insults. To me Zidane proved he was violent and rude.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmarsh
As for "rude, aggressive, unfair, deceptive, "spit-loving", cheating", I didnt write all of that. My criticism is Italian Football not the country or the people.[ I think the Italian style of play is unsporting, and some of the tactics they use unfair. And I really dont like they way their players take dives. To me thats cheating. So no, I didnt write anything that could be construed as "country bashing".
I know, and I never said you did. Others did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mmarsh
I think the Italian style of play is unsporting, and some of the tactics they use unfair. And I really dont like they way their players take dives. To me thats cheating
So was the referee not up to his job?
July 10th, 2006  
Mohmar Deathstrike
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Italian Guy
Yep, the right word indeed.
Overhere huge celebrations everywhere, on the streets, in the squares. Girls stripping and people drunk. Everybody jumping at the tune of "Who doesn't jump is a Frenchman"
And I was thinking that song was called "Seven Nation Army" by the White Stripes...
July 10th, 2006  
Mohmar Deathstrike
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien435
Oh shut up about "easy" schedules. It's the WORLD CUP, there are no slack teams there, especially not outside of group play. To say that Italy had an easy schedule is incredibly disrespectful to the Italian players for the effort they put forth and to the teams Italy had to play to get to where they were.

One bright note out of this. Italy beat every team they came up against except one, anybody remember what team that was?
It began with "United..." or something. Nope, can't remember.
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.Oh wait, I got it! Was it the United Arab Emirates?

July 10th, 2006  
Ollie Garchy
 
 
Here is a good clip that shows something about Italian football:

The materazzi perspective

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpG4AHlZrL4
 


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