FBI CONFIRMS IT: CRIMINALS IGNORE GUN LAWS

I am legally entitled to own a motor vehicle as well but I am not entitled to break the laws governing them though.

So as much as you are allowed to own a firearm there is nothing that says they can't place restrictions on usage, storage, transportation or function.

Show me in any legal document that you have a legal right to own a vehicle... Show me where it says that you have a God given right to own a motor vheicle. Doesn't say that here is the USA. But it does say in two simple sentences that I have a God given right to own firearms and that the Government cannot infringe on that right.

US Constitution is the highest law of the land.

2nd Amendment - US Constitution said:
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
 
I am legally entitled to own a motor vehicle as well but I am not entitled to break the laws governing them though.

So as much as you are allowed to own a firearm there is nothing that says they can't place restrictions on usage, storage, transportation or function.

Operating a Motor Vehicle in the United States of America is a privilege extended by the States individually, one which can be suspended or revoked at the will of the State in which the Citizen lives. There is no Constitutional Issue to contend with, unless someone is being unfairly discriminated against, like say if there was a Law enacted where a Black Citizen was not allowed to operate one, but a White Citizen was allowed to operate one, merely based on the race of the Citizen.
Such would fall under the 14th Amendment dealing with Equal Protection.

There are plenty of restrictions put on Firearm ownership and use in the United States of America, I believe more so than with Motor Vehicles, and yet more Americans are killed by Motor Vehicles in the United States of America.

I look for a crackdown on the ownership and operation of privately owned Motor Vehicles in the USA. Soon Citizens my not be allowed to privately own a Motor Vehicle which emits hazardous material into a public space, and into the atmosphere the way that Citizens are now, and or the operation of such Vehicles may be restricted or greatly reduced by law for private Citizens operating such in a public space. The Law Suits will come first, in my opinion, like second-hand smoke from cigarettes, if someone is walking and a car or truck drives by on a public street the person walking will sue, because it is a public street.
In my own opinion there is a lot of confusion in the USA with the mistaken belief that it is a "right" to own and or operate a Motor Vehicle in the United States of America. Like the Smokers thinking mistakenly that it was a "right" that they be allowed to smoke in public, which was found out not to be a right at all.

 
Operating a Motor Vehicle in the United States of America is a privilege extended by the States individually, one which can be suspended or revoked at the will of the State in which the Citizen lives.

Thats a somewhat dubious response as there are legal requirements to driving a motor vehicle and once you have met those requirements you are legally entitled to use a motor vehicle. I don't know if you are required to have the license to buy a vehicle though as I already had one when I purchased mine.

As far as individual states extending such a right given that you can drive in all states with the same license hell I can buy a vehicle and drive around the US with a New Zealand license I think it fair to say the licensing is now almost universal.

Bugfatty said:
Sure there is.

"...Keep and bear arms Shall not be infringed..."

Any restriction is an infringment.

Dare you to walk into a bank or approach a cop in Phoenix with a shot gun.

Well not really, the point is like it or not there are restrictions and no amount of 2nd amendment waving will change those restrictions.

Heres a question for you (not a hypothetical one as I am interested in the answer):
What would happen if a privately owned business put up signs saying no firearms were permitted on the premises. Based on the 2nd amendment can that sign be ignored or do private property laws over rule it?
 
Thats a somewhat dubious response as there are legal requirements to driving a motor vehicle and once you have met those requirements you are legally entitled to use a motor vehicle. I don't know if you are required to have the license to buy a vehicle though as I already had one when I purchased mine.

As far as individual states extending such a right given that you can drive in all states with the same license hell I can buy a vehicle and drive around the US with a New Zealand license I think it fair to say the licensing is now almost universal.

Individual states extend a privilege in the United States of America, as there is no such Right involved, and you would need an International Drivers License in the United States of America to drive, not merely your home Nation License.


http://www.usa.gov/Topics/Foreign_Visitors_Driving.shtml

  1. An international driver's license must be obtained from your home country. This permit only verifies that you hold a valid license in your home country. It is your foreign driver's license that allows you to drive in the United States. Contact the authorities in your home country to get an international driving permit, as the United States does NOT issue international driver's licenses to foreign visitors.
  2. If you obtain a valid international driver's license from your country of origin before you come to the U.S., you may rent a car and drive before you get your U.S. driver's license.
  3. A U.S. driver's license is not a federal document, but it's a permit issued by one of the 50 states' motor vehicle departments. If you're going to reside in the U.S., it may take several months to obtain a U.S. driver's license.
  4. Foreign visitors who become U.S. residents can only obtain a driver's license from the state in which they reside. Each state has its own driving rules and regulations. Check with your state's motor vehicles department to find out how to apply.
  5. Once you receive your U.S. driver's license from a state motor vehicles department, you will be permitted to drive in all other U.S. states. The laws in each state vary from one to another. It is your responsibility to know and obey the laws of that state while driving.
  6. The residency requirement for obtaining a U.S. driver's license varies with each state. Consult the motor vehicles department in your state for more information.
  7. If you are a foreign student coming to the U.S. to study, contact the university or college you will attend, as most institutions provide students with driving information and most have websites.
  8. The U.S. government has issued warnings about Internet vendors of worthless international driver's licenses. It is important to educate yourself about the dangers of these costly and illegal operations. Here are two resources:


It is not a National procedure in the United States of America but a State Licensing procedure.
Buying a Vehicle is also a State procedure, as the Vehicle is Titled, and then Registered in the State in which the Citizen resides.
There are different laws as far as licensing for Motor Vehicles in the United States, it goes by State, for instance, a Citizen may be able to get a Drivers License in one State, where the same Citizen may not be able to get a Drivers License in another State for one reason or another.
Was sort of my point regarding the Constitution, as driving is a State issue not a National one, and it is mere privilege and not a Right.
 
Heres a question for you (not a hypothetical one as I am interested in the answer):
What would happen if a privately owned business put up signs saying no firearms were permitted on the premises. Based on the 2nd amendment can that sign be ignored or do private property laws over rule it?

In the state of Florida, a property owner can place a sign that says no firearms on property. Said sign has no legal authority. The property owner must ask you in person to remove said firearm. That applies to a store. If it is a home. You can allow or not allow what ever you want.

Property rights are part of the US Constitution. Florida has Castle Doctrine law. Which states that your home is your castle. You have the right to guard and protect you castle.

A home and a business are two different things. Home is private, closed to the public. Business is open to the public, hence the people have the legal right to carry a firearm unless the property owner informs you that you are not allowed to carry in said business.
 
Individual states extend a privilege in the United States of America, as there is no such Right involved, and you would need an International Drivers License in the United States of America to drive, not merely your home Nation License.



Oddly enough then it is a law they do not uphold, I spend roughly 4 months a year in the US (Oregon, Arizona, California and Washington DC for both work and family) during the first 4 or 5 years I routinely rented vehicles and have since purchased 3 different vehicles without ever having an international drivers license. All I have ever been asked for is my New Zealand drivers license, even police have accepted it.

Trust me we have spent a lot of time trying to get definitive a answer on this one as I have no ambition to spend any time in a prison anywhere in the world because of something as silly as a drivers license and the only information any authority has given me was a requirement to get a US license (presumably temporary) if I spent greater than 6 months in the US.

5.56X45mm said:
A home and a business are two different things. Home is private, closed to the public. Business is open to the public, hence the people have the legal right to carry a firearm unless the property owner informs you that you are not allowed to carry in said business.

Would that extend to the people I employ and acting as my deputies?
For example can I as a business owner tell my staff that I do not want firearms on the premises and anyone they see breaking that rule is to be asked to leave. Would that be enforceable?
 
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Oddly enough then it is a law they do not uphold, I spend roughly 4 months a year in the US (Oregon, Arizona, California and Washington DC for both work and family) during the first 4 or 5 years I routinely rented vehicles and have since purchased 3 different vehicles without ever having an international drivers license. All I have ever been asked for is my New Zealand drivers license, even police have accepted it.

Trust me we have spent a lot of time trying to get definitive a answer on this one as I have no ambition to spend any time in a prison anywhere in the world because of something as silly as a drivers license and the only information any authority has given me was a requirement to get a US license (presumably temporary) if I spent greater than 6 months in the US.

I cannot help it if the Laws are enforced or not, I only know the Laws are there, and that Driving, unlike Firearm Ownership, is a mere privilege and not a Right.
States, as well as the Federal Government view such as privilege in the United States of America, take this article from the National Institutes of Health, a Government Agency.....

http://www.nih.gov/news/pr/jul2002/nia-29.htm
Questions Arise As More Older Americans Outlive Driving Privilege

You will notice the Federal Government did not state that it was a Driving Right, or a Right to Drive that Americans outlive.

This is from the State of California....

"If you refuse to submit to any of the tests, your driving privilege may be suspended for the refusal. Even if you change your mind later and agree to a test, your driving privilege may be suspended for both reasons, although both actions will run concurrently."

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/pgs71thru76.htm


Also a Privilege and not a Right in Law.

All States within the United States to my knowledge view the operation of a Motor Vehicle within the State as a Privilege, if you come across one which views such as a Right I would hope that you would let me know so I can be better informed on the matter.

As for your question regarding the International License, I would think that your State Department or Foreign Affairs Office would have the info on this matter, as the US Federal Government has already stated that they do not get involved in such.

Oh, and just a thought, the Police who stopped you, with your License may have thought that New Zealand was either a State, or a US Holding, such as Guam, Puerto Rico, or the Virgin Islands, or any of the other holdings the United States had and has given up since the end of the Second World War.... which is not saying much for the Police involved.
 
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Would that extend to the people I employ and acting as my deputies?
For example can I as a business owner tell my staff that I do not want firearms on the premises and anyone they see breaking that rule is to be asked to leave. Would that be enforceable?

Yes, you can. The signs in the state of Florida have no authority.

If you as a business owner or as an acting agent of authority for the business informed an individual that the business does not allow the carrying of firearms within the business and the person refuses to leave. You may call the police. Once the police arrive they must inform the individual that they cannot carry a firearm within the business. If the individual still does not comply, the police officer may arrest the individual for tresspassing with a firearm. Which is a felony.

In Florida, a Felony is a crime with a prison term of 366 days or more in a state prison. A Misdemeanor is a crime with a jail term of 365 days or less in a county jail.

County jail holds criminals of Misdemeanor crimes
State Prison holds criminals of Felony crimes


________________________________________________________________


There is no such thing as a International Driver's License or International Driver's Document. I arrest many foreign nationals (illegal immigrants) that have these documents.

There is a International Driving Permit....
An International Driving Permit (IDP) allows an individual to drive their private motor vehicle in another nation only when accompanied by a valid license from their country. The document is approximately the size of a standard passport and is esssentially a multiple language translation of one's own existing driver's license, complete with photograph and vital statistics. It is not a license to operate a motor vehicle on its own. Within the European Union a licence of one member state is recognised in all other member states without the need for a IDP.
 
There is no such thing as a International Driver's License or International Driver's Document. I arrest many foreign nationals (illegal immigrants) that have these documents.

There is a International Driving Permit....

If the Federal Governments use of the term "International Drivers License" bothers you that much, may I suggest that you take your complant up with the United States Federal Government, a Federal Government I myself provided a link to.

Here are some links you can use to voice your frustration with the US Federal Government on the matter....

http://www.state.gov/

http://www.fbi.gov/

http://www.usa.gov/


Good luck.
 
A US Citizen has 10 Rights as outlined in the first 10 amendments of the United States of America or more commonly called the Bill of Rights, everything else is a privilege granted to you by the government whether you like it or not.
 
Yes, you can. The signs in the state of Florida have no authority.

If you as a business owner or as an acting agent of authority for the business informed an individual that the business does not allow the carrying of firearms within the business and the person refuses to leave. You may call the police. Once the police arrive they must inform the individual that they cannot carry a firearm within the business. If the individual still does not comply, the police officer may arrest the individual for tresspassing with a firearm. Which is a felony.

In Florida, a Felony is a crime with a prison term of 366 days or more in a state prison. A Misdemeanor is a crime with a jail term of 365 days or less in a county jail.

County jail holds criminals of Misdemeanor crimes
State Prison holds criminals of Felony crimes

Ok then in effect the right to "bear arms" can be infringed by property rights ie if I don't want you to carry on my property (both private and commercial) I have the right to stop you and it will be backed by the law.
 
It's your property, infringement has nothing to do with that. It's your frakking property.

You can make a rule that would not allow folks to wear pants on your property if you want. Property rights and 2nd amendment rights are two seperate issues.

Nice try in playing the game.
 
It's your property, infringement has nothing to do with that. It's your frakking property.

You can make a rule that would not allow folks to wear pants on your property if you want. Property rights and 2nd amendment rights are two seperate issues.

Nice try in playing the game.


Not sure you can make that rule as public nudity and indecency laws would probably override it.

As far as playing games go I don't see the game you and others have claimed that your 2nd amendment rights cannot be infringed and I have just given you an example of how at least part of it can be done legally and thus indicating that it is not carved in stone.

Lets face it the literal interpretation of that right would allow you to bear arms anywhere you liked any time you liked as anything else would be infringing on your right.
 
Not sure you can make that rule as public nudity and indecency laws would probably override it.

As far as playing games go I don't see the game you and others have claimed that your 2nd amendment rights cannot be infringed and I have just given you an example of how at least part of it can be done legally and thus indicating that it is not carved in stone.

Lets face it the literal interpretation of that right would allow you to bear arms anywhere you liked any time you liked as anything else would be infringing on your right.


Here, allow me to play along.
The Right is there not so one must allow me to enter their home with my Weapon in the United States of America, but rather there so one cannot complain that I have a Weapon in my home, a Weapon that they would like to see removed, and then have the Government act as an agent in the removal of such, likewise the Federal Government cannot act alone and just get tired of people having Firearms, and decide to have them all removed from Private Ownership.
The Amendment is a restriction on the Federal Government infringing on the Right of the People to Keep and Bear Arms, not a Law requiring that someone like Firearms and or own Firearms if one does not wish to in the first place.
Although, there are places the Federal Government, along with State Governments, in which a private Citizen cannot keep nor bear Arms, like a Courthouse for instance, along with many other State and Federal Buildings. Aircraft also come to mind as a place where one cannot keep nor bear Arms if they are a Private Citizen, but the Right is still there, it is pretty much a choice to fly in an Aircraft after all, and as far as a Courthouse and other Federal Buildings, well if one is ordered there, then I guess one would just have to suck it up for the short time one would be inside, there are Armed Guards at many of the State and Federal Buildings, so, even if the Nation falls under attack when one was inside, inside and far away from their Firearm, well the Armed Guards could perhaps offer covering fire, so one may be able to make it back to their Vehicle and be with their gun.

Employment is also not a Right in the United States of America, so, one does not just walk into a company and sit down and claim "here I am, I work here now, and I'm keeping my Gun on my person, as it is my right"

Like the Freedom of Speech, there is only the Right to speak, there is no such Right in Federal Law that one must be heard, or that one is agreed with, but still, the Right to Speak it is there.
That means that one does not have to listen to things that they may disagree with, but one cannot stop someone else from having the Right to Speak freely, even if someone does not like what others have to say.
One does not however have to allow the person into their home to say what is on their mind, as there is no such right in law for that action to take place.
It is a protection Citizens enjoy, a protection from the Government, either acting alone, or acting as an agent against other Citizens exercising a Right, a Right guaranteed by the Government.

There is no Federal Law that a person is required by Law to own a Firearm, although there was at one time in America for most of the General Population, so I really do not see what all the fuss is about with some groups in America. The Federal Government is saying that while one does not by Law need to keep a Firearm, however those wishing and able will be allowed by Law to own a Firearm.
 
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Ok then in effect the right to "bear arms" can be infringed by property rights ie if I don't want you to carry on my property (both private and commercial) I have the right to stop you and it will be backed by the law.

What exactly do you not understand about
"Shall not be infringed"

it does not say "may not be infringed" or "should not be infringed", that my friend is a huge difference.

Definitions:
[SIZE=-1]
"shall' implies a mandatory statement, the word "should" implies an advisory statement, and the word "may" implies the right to use discretion.

[/SIZE]
in·fringe play_w("I0136400") (
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n-fr
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)v. in·fringed, in·fring·ing, in·fring·es
v.tr.1. To transgress or exceed the limits of; violate: infringe a contract; infringe a patent.
2. Obsolete To defeat; invalidate.

v.intr. To encroach on someone or something; engage in trespassing: an increased workload that infringed on his personal life.

[SIZE=-1]
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/infringed

The person is not infringing your right to bear arms they are telling you if you want to have a weapon you must leave for then you are no longer welcome, they are not taking your gun away. Their personal property is their personal property they own it they can do whatever they want on it. If they don't like what you are saying they can ask you to leave.
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"criminals ignore gun laws,"
I personally don't believe it. They are just nice men with a bad name. :shock: lolol.

I laughed my head off when I read the beginning part of that. A five year study to figure that out huh? Wow, I feel safe being protected by an FBI that doesn't have the common sense to figure that out without having the numbers "for sure" posted.

Please, help!
 
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