Family Research

[Trooper1854]

For nearly fifteen years we have been researching our family history.
We recently found a cousin of my wife's grandfather.
His name was William Joseph Jones.
He was in the North Staffordshire Regiment in WWI and was killed in action sometime in October 1918.
From regimental diaries, we know he was fighting around the St Quentin Canal in October 1918.
We know that he must be somwhere in this photograph:

When we visited the Staffordshire Regiment museum, they have a wall sized version of this picture and we spent ages staring at it knowing Joseph is there looking back at us.

Joseph has no known grave and is commemorated on the memorial at the Vis En Artois cemetry in France.

We visited Vis En Artois recently and found his name on the memorial, he is the 7th down:

From the research we have done, it appears that the two cousins may not have known about each other, Sharon's grandfather was in the Royal Engineers and served in various places along the Western Front, mainly in Flanders, but from the regimental histories, it appears that at times they may have been very near each other.

 

[LeEnfield]

I have been working on my family tree for a number of years and have turned up an uncle of my Grandmother who won a VC in WW1 while in the Middlesex Reg, and I also had three uncles from the same family KIA with the Middlesex Regiment. Also it works out I am related to the Duke of Marlborough, William Harley of Harley Davidson fame and a William Brenton who once owned New York & Rhode Island

 

[Trooper1854]

I have been working on my family tree for a number of years and have turned up an uncle of my Grandmother who won a VC in WW1 while in the Middlesex Reg, and I also had three uncles from the same family KIA with the Middlesex Regiment. Also it works out I am related to the Duke of Marlborough, William Harley of Harley Davidson fame and a William Brenton who once owned New York & Rhode Island

It never ceases to amaze me what doing this research can turn up.
Before my wife started to investigate her family's past there were so many "facts" about her family's past that have now been found to be completely false.
It has really snow balled, we have so many different directions to follow, that its hard keeping track of the various branches to her family.
My side is proving difficult as having family spread all over Europe and the U.S.A. its not proving as easy to get official documents as it is in the U.K.

 

[VDKMS]

I'm glad with this topic. I'm working on my family tree too.

For years I'm looking for a regiment. A first cousin 6x removed (according to Family Tree Maker) was a reformed (translated with Google) soldier of the 5th Regiment (1796?). Belgium was annexed by France in 1795. The regiment could be Hussars or cavalry. The man lived in Lier (near Antwerp). Anyone knows a French (Dutch?) 5th regiment?

I have a namesake (almost all namesakes were born in Lier) who got the medal of Saint Hélèna on 27 april 1858. The Saint Helena medal, created in 1857 by Napoleon III, was awarded to the 405,000 soldiers still living in 1857, who had fought with Napoleon I during the 1792-1815 wars.

 

[LeEnfield]

I had a cousin that died on this ship attacking a Japanese convoy with training shells.
The skipper got the VC for his actions after the war

 

[MontyB]

I'm glad with this topic. I'm working on my family tree too.

For years I'm looking for a regiment. A first cousin 6x removed (according to Family Tree Maker) was a reformed (translated with Google) soldier of the 5th Regiment (1796?). Belgium was annexed by France in 1795. The regiment could be Hussars or cavalry. The man lived in Lier (near Antwerp). Anyone knows a French (Dutch?) 5th regiment?

I have a namesake (almost all namesakes were born in Lier) who got the medal of Saint Hélèna on 27 april 1858. The Saint Helena medal, created in 1857 by Napoleon III, was awarded to the 405,000 soldiers still living in 1857, who had fought with Napoleon I during the 1792-1815 wars.

There was a 5th Regiment of Belgian-Dutch Dragoons that fought at Waterloo in 1815, there are several reports of them talking to former colleagues in the French Chasseurs â Cheval at Quatre Bras, and then being shot at by British troops whilst retiring because their uniforms looked too much like the enemy.

So it is possible you are looking for a French Chasseur regiment.

 

[VDKMS]

There was a 5th Regiment of Belgian-Dutch Dragoons that fought at Waterloo in 1815, there are several reports of them talking to former colleagues in the French Chasseurs â Cheval at Quatre Bras, and then being shot at by British troops whilst retiring because their uniforms looked too much like the enemy.

So it is possible you are looking for a French Chasseur regiment.

Thanks. In his book "The letters of Private Wheeler 1809-1828" he mentionend a retreating Belgian cavalry unit during the battle at Waterloo. Maybe it was that 5th regiment.

 

[MontyB]

Thanks. In his book "The letters of Private Wheeler 1809-1828" he mentionend a retreating Belgian cavalry unit during the battle at Waterloo. Maybe it was that 5th regiment.

Alternatively Napoleon had several Hussar regiments including a 5th Regiment...

Maybe there is a name or location in there that can help.

5th Regiment of Hussars


Created on the 14th September 1783 with the Cavalry of the Legion de Lauzun and numbered as the 6th Regiment de Hussars in 1791. The regiment was re-numbered as the 5th Regiment de Hussars by Decree of 4th June 1793.
Colonels and Chefs de Brigade

1793 Ruin (François) - Chef de Brigade 1794 Scholtenius (Engleburt) - Chef de Brigade
1794 Schwartz (François-Xavier-Nicolas) - Chef de Brigade
1806 Dery (Pierre-Cesar) - Colonel
1809 Meuziau (Charles-Claude) - Colonel
1813 Fournier (Alphonse) - Colonel
1814 Liegeard (Jean-Baptiste) - Colonel
​

Of the above list, two of these men attained the rank of General de Brigade and above.
Schwartz (François-Xavier-Nicolas)

Born: 8th January 1762 Chef de Brigade 5th Hussars: 3rd September 1799
General de Brigade: 30th December 1806
Officer of the Legion d'Honneur: 15th June 1804
Commander of the Legion d'Honneur: 25th December 1805
Baron of the Empire: 9th March 1808
Died: 9th October 1826
​

Meuziau (Charles-Claude)

Born: 18th February 1777 Colonel 5th Hussars: 21st September 1809
General de Brigade: 4th December 1813
Died: 16 September 1834
​

Colonels killed and wounded while in command of the 5th Regiment de Hussars.

Colonel Dery: wounded 4th February 1807 Colonel Dery: wounded 10th June 1807
Colonel Meuziau: wounded 7th September 1812
Colonel Meuziau: wounded 18th October 1812
​

Officers killed and wounded while serving with the 5th Regiment de Hussars from 1805-1815

Officers Killed: Nine Officers died of wounds: Seven
Officers wounded: Ninety Six
​

Regimental War Record (Battles and Combats)

1792: Valmy and Jemmapes.(As 6th Regiment of Hussars) 1793: Wattignies
1794: Blockade of Nimegue
1795: Texel
1797: Neuwied
1799: Ostrach and Stokach
1800: Mosskirch, Biberach, Kirchberg and Hohenlinden
1805: Austerlitz
1806: Crewitz, Stettin, and Golymin
1807: Waltersdorf, Eylau, Heilsberg and Konigsberg
1809: Eckmuhl and Wagram
1812: Borodino, Winkono, and Berezina
1813: Bautzen, Leipzig, and Hanau
1814: Arcis-sur-Aube
1815: Ligny, Waterloo, and Versailles
​

Battle Honours
Jemmapes 1792, Jena 1806, Eckmuhl 1809, La Moskowa 1812, and Hanau 1813.

http://www.napoleon-series.org/military/organization/c_hussars.html#5th

 

[MontyB]

I had a cousin that died on this ship attacking a Japanese convoy with training shells.
The skipper got the VC for his actions after the war

Well perhaps it is your cousin that should have got the VC.

I finally have one of the Wifes Grandfather and oddly enough he didn't win the VC either.

 

[LeEnfield]

My grandmothers Uncle Robert Ryder who one the VC in 1917. Ann attack had gone in and all the officers and NCO had been killed or wounded and the attack had faltered. He picked up a Lewis gun and carried on by him self and after taking several German trenches the rest of the men then followed

 

[MontyB]

Both my Grandfathers fought in WW1 but I only have a picture of one, unusually both survived the war without a scratch in combat although one got stabbed by a farmer with a pitchfork however we never got the full story of how that happened.

 

[Trooper1854]

This is my Wife's Grandfather, Walter Magee Oxford.
He was in the Royal Engineers, and spent the war in the 29th Division.
He was at the Somme, and 3rd Ypres, among many other battles.

He was in the army before WWI, in the North Staffordshire Regiment.
He left the army before the war but re-enlisted into the RE in 1914.

 

[MontyB]

One day I will have to try and do a decent presentation of their medals and records similar to what you have, I have all of the family decorations but they are still in there boxes.

The main problem is that we have 3 armies to present and the German side of things is not the easiest to put together given that he is not prone to talking about the war.

 

[Trooper1854]

The main problem is that we have 3 armies to present and the German side of things is not the easiest to put together given that he is not prone to talking about the war.

I have a similar situation.
In WWI my Italian relatives fought for the Allies,
In WWII, they were on the Axis side.
It's hard enough getting information regarding their experiences for the first conflict, let alone getting anything about World War 2.
My mum's older brother was in Russia with Mussolini's Facist Expeditionary Force.
He was very reluctant to talk about things, but the last time I saw him, just before he died, he did open up and tell me about his experiences while in Russia.

 

[BritinBritain]

My grandmothers Uncle Robert Ryder who one the VC in 1917. Ann attack had gone in and all the officers and NCO had been killed or wounded and the attack had faltered. He picked up a Lewis gun and carried on by him self and after taking several German trenches the rest of the men then followed

That looks like the Middlesex cap badge.

 

[MontyB]

I have a similar situation.
In WWI my Italian relatives fought for the Allies,
In WWII, they were on the Axis side.
It's hard enough getting information regarding their experiences for the first conflict, let alone getting anything about World War 2.
My mum's older brother was in Russia with Mussolini's Facist Expeditionary Force.
He was very reluctant to talk about things, but the last time I saw him, just before he died, he did open up and tell me about his experiences while in Russia.

I found the only time he started to talk about things was when we got him out here for a visit and he met a few of the family that had also fought in Italy (Allied side).

I still don't quite know a whole lot about his unit involvement but he was a 1941 replacement so he missed the Crete campaign and the only other picture I have of him is manning a mortar in Cassino, one day I will sit down and do the work to figure it all out but having 6 Uncles and a father who all served in WW2 I kind of have my hands full.

 

[LeEnfield]

BritAfrica....Yes it was the Middlesex Regiment, and two more of my uncles died with them in WW1

 

[BritinBritain]

BritAfrica....Yes it was the Middlesex Regiment, and two more of my uncles died with them in WW1

Thanks mate.

My granddad was with the Middlesex, he was opposite hill 60 when it went up. He survived the war but was wounded 3 times, gassed and frostbitten. He totally lost his sense of smell due to the gassing.

 

[LeEnfield]

The Battle report on my uncles last battle

30 Oct. [The Battle of Ypres 1917 - the Second Battle of Passchendaele] Battn. attacked at 5.50am 7RF on left, Artists Rifles on right, Canadian Corps on right of Artists. Canadians reached [unreadable] objectives but our attack was held up by very heavy and boggy ground surrounding the PADDEBEEK and a total advance of about 150-200 yards only was made. CASUALTIES - Officers Killed; Capt. L.C.T. Gate [Leslie Charles Thomas GATE], 2Lt A.E. Tee [Albert Edward TEE]. Wounded; Capt. J. Scott [James SCOTT], Lt C.H. Wareing [Cecil Hooten WAREING], Lt K.V.R. GOLD, 2Lt S.A. Glossop [Sydney A. GLOSSOP], 2Lt Bornett [Charles BORNET], 2Lt New [Leslie Perry NEW], 2Lt Radwell [George Millard RADWELL]. OR Killed 52, wounded 180, missing 23. Battn relieved by NELSON Battn. at 7pm and marched out to IRISH FARM. Lt-Colonel Collings-Wells D.S.O., [John Stanhope COLLINGS-WELLS, VC, DSO] Capt. & Adjt. J.H. Blackwell [John Humphrey BLACKWELL, MC & Bar], 2Lt Ellis [Ernest Dennis ELLIS], 2Lt R.C. Fynn [Robert Charles FYNN], Capt. F.T. Spicer MC [Frederick Thomas SPICER, MBE, MC], 2Lt J.W. TACCHI, Capt P.F. Watts [Percy Frederick WATTS, MC] came out with the battalion.

 

[Trooper1854]

I bought a Princess Mary tin for my wife as present, because her Grandfather's one went missing.
When it arrived we found it had the name, rank, and serial number of it's original owner stamped into it.
As she is very good at tracking down people, she researched the guy, and found out that he was an officer, killed in October 1916 on the Somme.
He had a brother, killed at the Somme too.
As they were the only males of their family, and had no children, the family line ended with their deaths.
We have tried going sideways to see if there were any cousins, niece, nephews etc, so we could return the tin to a family member, but we have had no luck, so far.