FACT CHECK: Obama's words on home aid ring hollow

[Donkey]

Donkey did you fail economics or something? If there is no money to be spent, nothing will be bought; if nothing is bought, stores will close, if stores close, no one will be able to buy anything they NEED; and if no one can buy anything they need, they will start to take it. Chaos and anarchy ensues. Basic principles. And common sense really.

I don't get where keeping a false sense of wealth keeps anything functioning...All the government is doing is printing more money...

Russia did something similar, they had lines to buy bread. In those lines people had baskets of money...

I definitely did not fail economics and I definitely have common sense...

The consumer nation mentality. Exactly what you say is common sense or more like brainwashed buy buy buy sense is exactly what got us where we are today.

Did we not learn anything from the difference in the recessions of the 20's versus what we did in the 30's????

People if they are smart will buy goods they need not 60" flat screens because they have to have the biggest TV (just an example)...

We have yet to see lines for gas or rationing...Lines for food or record levels of starving people, in fact last I checked the US was on of the most obese countries...

The sick, in this case bad businesses, need to die off or be killed in order for the "good" businesses to prosper...Simply keeping the bad a float and never letting the bubble completely pop is only postponing the inevitable...

What business that supply goods are even close to closing...Walmart still showing profits, Microsoft is planning on opening stores (and in such tough times), oil companies are still showing record profits, and that's just to name a few....

I am really lost on the logic of extending your already over extended entities is any sort of good practice...Typically that leads to catastrophic failure versus simple failure...

 

[Rob Henderson]

I don't get where keeping a false sense of wealth keeps anything functioning...All the government is doing is printing more money...

Russia did something similar, they had lines to buy bread. In those lines people had baskets of money...

I definitely did not fail economics and I definitely have common sense...

The consumer nation mentality. Exactly what you say is common sense or more like brainwashed buy buy buy sense is exactly what got us where we are today.

Did we not learn anything from the difference in the recessions of the 20's versus what we did in the 30's????

People if they are smart will buy goods they need not 60" flat screens because they have to have the biggest TV (just an example)...

We have yet to see lines for gas or rationing...Lines for food or record levels of starving people, in fact last I checked the US was on of the most obese countries...

The sick, in this case bad businesses, need to die off or be killed in order for the "good" businesses to prosper...Simply keeping the bad a float and never letting the bubble completely pop is only postponing the inevitable...

What business that supply goods are even close to closing...Walmart still showing profits, Microsoft is planning on opening stores (and in such tough times), oil companies are still showing record profits, and that's just to name a few....

I am really lost on the logic of extending your already over extended entities is any sort of good practice...Typically that leads to catastrophic failure versus simple failure...

If some of our main exports go under (automobile industries) we will be in very bad shape. I will agree that people don't need to buy big screen TVs... But have you checked out Sony's profit ratings? They ain't doin' so hot.

OF COURSE oil companies are still showing profits! This is America! Where we have more cars per person than licenses to drive them!!


My scenario in the previous post is an extreme extrapolation... It's not like we're going to wake up tomorrow with a mob setting Wal-Mart ablaze... But it's the principle that bad things can happen when people STOP buying things.

 

[WNxRogue]

Spending stimulates the economy. That is the way it is.

In the long run, it is better to spend money now and snap us out of this recession then it is to save and stay in it.

 

[mmarsh]

Guy's been in office 1 month and some people have already written him off. His policies haven't even been enacted and people are calling him a failure. Of course people were calling his administration a failure even before he took office.

USMC03

I think Seniorjekips said it best, no plan covers everyone. Its simply impossible to have a single bit of legislation thats cover the entire 300 Million person population. And Remember, it wasn't Obama that got us into this mess, but you'd have thought different the way the right is screeching about it.

TI

Can you please tell us where was this information is from?

 

[The Other Guy]

I don't get where keeping a false sense of wealth keeps anything functioning...All the government is doing is printing more money...

Russia did something similar, they had lines to buy bread. In those lines people had baskets of money...

I definitely did not fail economics and I definitely have common sense...

The consumer nation mentality. Exactly what you say is common sense or more like brainwashed buy buy buy sense is exactly what got us where we are today.

Did we not learn anything from the difference in the recessions of the 20's versus what we did in the 30's????

People if they are smart will buy goods they need not 60" flat screens because they have to have the biggest TV (just an example)...

We have yet to see lines for gas or rationing...Lines for food or record levels of starving people, in fact last I checked the US was on of the most obese countries...

The sick, in this case bad businesses, need to die off or be killed in order for the "good" businesses to prosper...Simply keeping the bad a float and never letting the bubble completely pop is only postponing the inevitable...

What business that supply goods are even close to closing...Walmart still showing profits, Microsoft is planning on opening stores (and in such tough times), oil companies are still showing record profits, and that's just to name a few....

I am really lost on the logic of extending your already over extended entities is any sort of good practice...Typically that leads to catastrophic failure versus simple failure...

The recessions in the 20s got worse in the 30s because of government inaction, where they did not bail out industries and instead let them crash and burn. Inflation wasn't the issue in the US... It was deflation, if anything. The agricultural industry couldn't make any money because they couldn't sell crops for a high enough value.

What businesses that supply goods? Just a couple years ago, Big Bear supermarkets went bust. Circuit city is closing. 3-4 major department strores are shutting down soon. Starbucks is taking losses.

What other proof of a goods supplying buisness going under do you need?

 

[Team Infidel]

TI

Can you please tell us where was this information is from?

Please see the other pages. There are several articles on the internet about the facts, or the mistakes.

 

[senojekips]

Put rather simplistically, Adolph Hitler had the answer.

You don't have to throw money to the masses, you spend it on massive development programs that will benefit the state for many years to come. Reduce unemployment by drafting the unemployed into the army, and those not suited or willing, will go into labour corps, nobody gets paid for doing nothing.

It might not answer all of the questions, and it will certainly have the snivel libertarians up in arms, but it would be far better than any plan I've heard of to date from either side of politics.

 

[Rob Henderson]

Great in theory... Not so much in practice...


Kinda like Communism!

 

[senojekips]

And how did you arrive at that conclusion may I ask, especially the similarity with Communism. Every thing that I have ever read seemed to state that their beliefs and methodology were diametrically opposed.

Dear old Adolph may have done some stupid things later, but no one could argue with the success of his fiscal plan to drag Germany out of years of living hand to mouth, and the world wide depression.

It was great in theory and even better in practice as Germany went ahead when other countries were still going backwards.

 

[Rob Henderson]

I meant the other things Adolf Hitler did with his power...



The similarity with Communism is that, on paper, Communism sounds like a wonderful society... But when put into practice, it doesn't work as well.

 

[senojekips]

I meant the other things Adolf Hitler did with his power...

Well unfortunately, that is not what the debate is about, nor was it the intent of my aswer, and certainly has no bearing on the way we are going to fix our problem.

As I stated in my earlier post, it would not be popular with everyone, but if we want to achieve our aims people just have to realise that there is no "easy way out".

 

[errol]

So we reward stupidity and irresponsibilty. Yeah sounds like a plan:-?

Sounds like you don't know what you're talking about, 03.

Stabilizing the housing market is an important thing to do at the moment.

Obama is giving it a go.

What did the Libertarians have in mind O3? Just cut taxes???

 

[The Other Guy]

Stabilizing the housing market is an important thing to do at the moment.

Obama is giving it a go.

Agree.

I just heard a few minutes ago that the average home price in Detroit, once the third largest city in America behind only New York and Chicago, is $18,000. That's not a typo. A hundred grand could buy you an entire city block.

This is getting serious. When a city that big has residents in that poor a financial situation, something is seriously wrong. If we don't bail some of these people out, there could be no one left in Detroit.

 

[Rob Henderson]

Well unfortunately, that is not what the debate is about, nor was it the intent of my aswer, and certainly has no bearing on the way we are going to fix our problem.

As I stated in my earlier post, it would not be popular with everyone, but if we want to achieve our aims people just have to realise that there is no "easy way out".

I wasn't disagreeing with you, either... Just throwing in the fact that Adolf Hitler is a bit of an extreme example... Relax, seno, I think we're on the same page on this one.

 

[Partisan]

Agree.

I just heard a few minutes ago that the average home price in Detroit, once the third largest city in America behind only New York and Chicago, is $18,000. That's not a typo. A hundred grand could buy you an entire city block.

This is getting serious. When a city that big has residents in that poor a financial situation, something is seriously wrong. If we don't bail some of these people out, there could be no one left in Detroit.

The avg house price in Detroit has been heading south for quite a while. People started to move out to the more affluent suburbs, taking their tax revenue with them, the Detroit City Council failed to invest in any infrastructure or serious rejuvenation projects until recently - relying on the hope that developers would sieze huge parcels of land, make something pretty and get rid of the eyesore, derelict houses and factories - failed to happen.

If the central gov't is going to give some money to try and an extreme makeover, ok, but is it going to be supported and sustained - I would not live in downtown Detroit unless I was paid - A LOT. It is not a place to raise children, relax or go for a walk after dark.

All well and good to throw money at a problem, but unless behaviours and attitudes are changed it is just a plaster on a sucking chest wound. A prime example if Africa, which has had vast amounts of monetary aid poured into it, no change in attitude or behaviour (the money sticks to those in power) and the continent is still in need of help - even though it is potentially the richest continent on earth.

 

[Rob Henderson]

The avg house price in Detroit has been heading south for quite a while. People started to move out to the more affluent suburbs, taking their tax revenue with them, the Detroit City Council failed to invest in any infrastructure or serious rejuvenation projects until recently - relying on the hope that developers would sieze huge parcels of land, make something pretty and get rid of the eyesore, derelict houses and factories - failed to happen.

If the central gov't is going to give some money to try and an extreme makeover, ok, but is it going to be supported and sustained - I would not live in downtown Detroit unless I was paid - A LOT. It is not a place to raise children, relax or go for a walk after dark.

All well and good to throw money at a problem, but unless behaviours and attitudes are changed it is just a plaster on a sucking chest wound. A prime example if Africa, which has had vast amounts of monetary aid poured into it, no change in attitude or behaviour (the money sticks to those in power) and the continent is still in need of help - even though it is potentially the richest continent on earth.

I'm sure TOG was just using Detroit as an example... It's not JUST in Michigan that this is happening.

 

[The Other Guy]

The avg house price in Detroit has been heading south for quite a while. People started to move out to the more affluent suburbs, taking their tax revenue with them, the Detroit City Council failed to invest in any infrastructure or serious rejuvenation projects until recently - relying on the hope that developers would sieze huge parcels of land, make something pretty and get rid of the eyesore, derelict houses and factories - failed to happen.

If the central gov't is going to give some money to try and an extreme makeover, ok, but is it going to be supported and sustained - I would not live in downtown Detroit unless I was paid - A LOT. It is not a place to raise children, relax or go for a walk after dark.

All well and good to throw money at a problem, but unless behaviours and attitudes are changed it is just a plaster on a sucking chest wound. A prime example if Africa, which has had vast amounts of monetary aid poured into it, no change in attitude or behaviour (the money sticks to those in power) and the continent is still in need of help - even though it is potentially the richest continent on earth.

Like Henderson said... I was just using Detroit as an example. Heck, I wouldn't go for a walk in the daytime in Detroit... but when you can buy a house cheaper than you can buy a Toyota Camry? That's more than a result of white flight--That's pushing total collapse. House prices are plummeting everywhere, but imageine the situation if the housing market in the rest of America got that bad.

 

[pixiedustboo]

I know a guy that tried to get his mortage adjusted under the plan. He couldn't because he made all his payments on time. But guess it sucks to be responsible. Welcome to change.

+1








........................and Obama could be a poster child for Socialism.

 

[Rob Henderson]

"For the common good" Isn't that one of the main ideals of the Constitution? George Bush wasn't for the common good. He was "for the select few." Obama's not a Socialist... He's just fairer than GWB.

 

[WNxRogue]

........................and Obama could be a poster child for Socialism.

Socialism - "Socialism refers to a broad set of economic theories of social organization advocating public or state ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods, and a society characterized by equal opportunities for all individuals, with a fair or egalitarian method of compensation."

Lets see -

State ownership of means of production? Since industry in the United States (for the most part) is private, this can't be true. As a matter of fact, I can't think of a single example of a factory that has been nationalized since Obama became president.

State administration of the distribution of goods? Nope, goods move just as they did before. Capitalism still operates as it has been for decades.

Society characterized by equal opportunities for all individuals? This ties in with the next topic, but part of the American ideal is that "all men are created equal."

A fair or egalitarian method of compensation? In case you dont know, Egalitarianism is the idea that all people should have equal economic, political, social and civil rights. Well, I would hope that Obama follows this, since the Constitution and Bill of Rights both use egalitarian ideas. Hell, our reprensentative democracy is the ultimate form of political egalitarianism.

One of my biggest pet peeves is people terming Obama as a socialist. There are plenty of other things you can accuse him of, but being a Socialist is not one of them.