F-22 vs MiG-1.42 - Page 3




View Poll Results :Who do You think is better?
F-22 "Raptor" 26 78.79%
MiG 1.42 "Raptorski" 7 21.21%
Voters: 33. You may not vote on this poll

 
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July 17th, 2004  
SHERMAN
 
 
What else...? I dont see an ansawer to the F15 in the world, and you are talking about an ansawer to the F22? The F22 is not meant to be a small agile fighter. thats the JSF role. Think about it as the F15 and f16 combo. And dont tell me that combo did not work.
July 17th, 2004  
GADefence
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sherman105
What else...? I dont see an ansawer to the F15 in the world, and you are talking about an ansawer to the F22? The F22 is not meant to be a small agile fighter. thats the JSF role. Think about it as the F15 and f16 combo. And dont tell me that combo did not work.
Well, considering it's a barely improved design over the F-15, has already had one loss to the Foxbat, and severely overpriced. . . I would rather fly something else.
July 18th, 2004  
Praxus
 
It's amazing how ignorant people are of excercises. They are used to test specific features of the aircraft or to improve the individual skill of the pilots.

They could have had a test where it was out numbered 20:1, it takes down 18 of them and then finnally get's shot down.

Until you provide evidence to the contrary, I will remain skepticle that it beat the F/A-22 in an even matched fight.
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July 18th, 2004  
GADefence
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxus
It's amazing how ignorant people are of excercises. They are used to test specific features of the aircraft or to improve the individual skill of the pilots.

They could have had a test where it was out numbered 20:1, it takes down 18 of them and then finnally get's shot down.

Until you provide evidence to the contrary, I will remain skepticle that it beat the F/A-22 in an even matched fight.
Ok, first off, the only one I ever heard of was a was 2 f-22 against 5 f-15's. Find me the news report that says it took down 20 f-15's alone, cause I don't believe.
July 18th, 2004  
Uncle_Sam
 
 
F-22:F-15 kill ratio is 1:70 if you didn't know.
July 18th, 2004  
Uncle_Sam
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GADefence
The best way I can answer this is - Do I want a very large, slightly maneouvrable, slightly stealthy, slightly fast figther? Or do I pick something other then a raptor?
It's very manouverable, it's stealthier than F-117, and can go(in some reports) 2.8+M! But plane is still classified....

Where did you dig up that....
July 18th, 2004  
GADefence
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle_Sam
Quote:
Originally Posted by GADefence
The best way I can answer this is - Do I want a very large, slightly maneouvrable, slightly stealthy, slightly fast figther? Or do I pick something other then a raptor?
It's very manouverable, it's stealthier than F-117, and can go(in some reports) 2.8+M! But plane is still classified....

Where did you dig up that....
Where did you dig this up! The maximum speed of the F-22 is mach 1.9! As well, it's not a stealthy aircraft, and further more, no it's not a big increase over F-15C's maneouvrability.

And how did you get a 1 to 70 kill ratio! That's unheard of for any fighter of any age.
July 19th, 2004  
Uncle_Sam
 
 
The F-22 "Raptor"

The F-22 is destined to replace the F-15 and become the next-generation fighter of the USAF. Together with the competing F-23 it is one of the first fighter designs optimized for stealth. In addition, it was designed to "supercruise", i.e. fly at supersonic speeds without afterburner. The F-22 has a relatively conventional appearance, with twin tails and flat fuselage sides. The engines have two-dimensional thrust vectoring nozzles. To conserve a low radar cross-section, the armament is carried in internal weapons bays.
The Lockheed F-22 Raptor, to be in service the United States Air Force, is undoubtedly the most advanced of all the fighter aircraft in development today. This aircraft is a true air dominance fighter and uses highly advanced technology to insure air superiority. The F-22 will provide first look/first shot/first kill ability in all environments. The F-22's sophisticated sensor suite, cockpit design, and avionics that improve the pilot's situational awareness all make up the supercomputing power of the F-22. The F-22's engines allow the aircraft to "supercruise" to a high threat environment, thus greatly increasing the F-22's speed and range over other fighters. The F-22 will make use of its high thrust to weight ratio and thrust vectoring engines to outmaneuver all current and projected fighters. The F-22 uses the most advanced stealth technologies involving a very stealthy airframe, internal carriage of weapons, RAM, reduced IR signature, and much more to extremely diminish the enemy's ability to see the aircraft on radar or lock onto the aircraft with IR guided missiles. The F-22 also possesses a secondary air to surface role. In addition to the two 2000 lb. GPS guided Joint Direct Attack Munitions carried internally, the F-22 can be modified with under wing pylons to carry air to ground munitions once air superiority has been established. The F-22 will enter service in 2004.
First look/first kill in all environments-A combination of improved sensor capability , improved situational awareness, and improved weapons provides first-kill opportunity against the threat. The F-22 possesses a sophisticated sensor suite that allow the pilot to track, identify, and shoot the threat before it detects the F-22. Significant effort is being placed on cockpit design and avionics fusion to improve the pilot's situational awareness. Advanced avionic technologies allow the F-22 sensors to gather, integrate, and display essential information in the most useful format to the pilot.
Reduced observables-Advances in low-observable technologies provide significantly improve survivability and lethality against air-to-air and surface-to-air threats. The F-22's combination of reduced observability and supercruise accentuate the advantage of surprise in a tactical environment.
Supersonic persistence-The F-22 engines produce more thrust than any current fighter engine, especially in the military (non-afterburner) power. This characteristic allows the F-22 to efficiently cruise at supersonic airspeeds without using afterburner (supercruise). This capability greatly expands the F-22's operating envelope in both speed and range over current fighters which must use afterburner to operate at supersonic speeds.
Increased maneuverability-The F-22 has been extensively designed, tested, and refined aerodynamically during the Demonstration/Validation (DEM/VAL) process and coupled with high-maneuver capability. The sophisticated F-22 aerodesign and high thrust-to-weight provides the capability to outmaneuver all current and projected threat aircraft.
Improved combat radius on internal fuel-To ensure the F-22 provides air superiority for deep-interdiction aircraft, it operates at medium and high altitude at ranges superior to current generation air-superiority aircraft.
Improved reliability and maintainability-To ensure operational flexibility, the F-22 has better reliability and maintainability than any military fighter in history. Increased F-22 reliability and maintainability pays off in less manpower required to fix the aircraft and consequently less aircraft required to support a deployed squadron. Additionally, reduced maintenance support provides the benefit of reduced life cycle cost and the ability to operate more efficiently from prepared of dispersed operating locations. The F-22 exceeds current fighter sortie surge rates with a reduced support structure.
Increased lethality and survivability-The above characteristics provide a synergistic effect that ensures F-22 lethality against an advanced air threat. The combination of reduced observability and supercruise drastically shrinks surface-to-air engagement envelopes and minimizes threat capabilities to engage and shoot the F-22.
Air-to-surface capability-The F-22 has a secondary role to attack surface targets. The aircraft will be capable of carrying 2 x 1,000 pound Joint Direct Attack Munitions (JDAMs) internally and will use on-board avionics for navigation and weapons delivery support.
Destined to become the next generation fighter of the USAF. The F-22 is a stealthy air-superiority fighter. Another requirement is the ability to cruise at supersonic speeds without afterburner. The F-22 has a rather conventional appearance, with twin tails and flat fuselage sides; the armament is carried in internal weapons bays. The engines have two-dimensional nozzles. Plans for a naval version, intended to replace the F-14, with extensive changes to make the aircraft suitable for carrier use, have been shelved. Service entry is expected in 2002, and the first F-22A production aircraft flew on 7 September 1997.
The ATF (Advanced Technology Fighter) programme began in September 1983, when design contracts were awarded to seven companies; in October 1986, development contracts were awarded to two consortia, one consisting of Lockheed (prime contractor), Boeing, and General Dynamics, the other of Northrop (prime contractor) and McDonnell Douglas. The first Northrop/MD YF-23A (unofficially "Black Widow II") flew on 27 August 1990, followed by the first Lockheed/Boeing/GD YF-22A (unofficially "Lightning II") on 29 September 1990. In April 1991, the YF-22A was selected for development and eventual service.
Recent budget cuts have slowed down the schedule slightly; the first flight of the production Lockheed/Boeing F-22A (General Dynamics sold its fighter division to Lockheed in December 1992), originally scheduled for June 1996, will now be in (probably) March 1997. Service entry is expected to begin in 2003; the USAF is currently fighting an attempt by the General Accounting Office to delay this to 2010. Total production, originally planned to be 648 aircraft, has now been reduced to 442.
Reports differ as to whether the aircraft has an official name yet; for a while the Pentagon was considering "Superstar", and some magazine reports have claimed that the name "Rapier" has been assigned. However, Chris Ridlon of USAF ROTC/Academy reports that all the USAF people he knows (including F-22 acquisition officers) are using Lockheed's name of "Lightning II", so that may be officially approved after all.
Vital statistics (YF-22A): length 18.90 m, span 13.56 m, empty weight 15422 kg, max weight 28123 kg, max speed 2655 km/h (Mach 2.5), ferry range 3704 km; power plant: two 155.68 kN Pratt & Whitney F119-100 augmented turbofans; armament: 20mm cannon, internal bays for two AIM-9 and four AIM-120A or six AIM-120C air-to-air missiles, or two AIM-9, two AIM-120, and two air-to-surface missiles, external hardpoints for four more AIM-120s or other ordnance; radar: Westinghouse/Texas Instruments APG-77.
Type: YF-22
Function: fighter
Year: 1990
Engines: 2 * 156kN P&W F119-PW-1
Wing Span: 13.10m
Length: 19.55 m
Height: 5.39 m
Wing Area: 77.10 m2
Empty Weight: 14061 kg
Max.Weight: 26308 kg
Speed: 2335 km/h
Range: 3704 km


Raptor is the only plane with this kind of manouverability! It is the most manouverable plane, and will be for a decade or more...
July 19th, 2004  
Uncle_Sam
 
 
With the first fight of the production model of F-22 from Lockheed Martin in September 97 in Georgia, a new era of aerial combat will be introduced.
The F-22 will be composed of stealth, speed and maneuverability, it is expected to replace all the F-15 in 2005 and retain air supremacy against fighter such as the Russian SU-37 or superior fighters in the Future.

Design

The challenge of the F-22 design was to consist of stealth, speed and agility into one plane. If the F-22 were to be stealth, it would need its entire weapon mounted internally and thus requiring a large internal volume. But if the plane were to be supersonic, it would need to be slender and be fitted with thin wings and tail section to reduce supersonic drag, which would be hard to reconcile with large volume. Agility is achieved by having a large wingspan and surface area along with effective control.

In general layout, the Raptor is a moderately swept (42 degrees) delta. The wing and the body is highly blended, one third of the wingspan lie between the wing attachment point, making room for the weapon bay and much of the fuel.

The wing was designed to minimized supersonic drag but still have enough maneuverability. Large leading flaps and complex camber make the wing more efficient at low speed or high alpha then earlier deltas.

The F-22 was designed so that the Raptor is capable of reaching an extreme angle of attack while still under the pilot's full control. The objective was "carefree abandon" handling, allowing the pilot to exploit a very large alpha/airspeed envelope without losing control of the aircraft. The Raptors is also immune to deep stalls and recover from high alphas, post-stall condition with both engine out and even in post-stall.

Thrust vectoring is not used to expand the envelope. At low airspeed the trust vector gets the Raptor from one maneuver state to another more quickly. The F-22 is controllable at any part of the envelope even if the engine failed.

The F-22 Raptor is mainly consist of titanium 44%, then 25% of composite material but the weight of the Raptor goal (25% lighter then the all aluminum airframe) was achieved.

F-22 Features

First look/first shot/first kill in all environments:
A combination of improved sensor capability, improved situational awareness and improved weapons provides first-kill opportunity against threats. The F-22 possesses a sophisticated sensor suite that

Allows the pilot to track, identify and shoot the threat before it detects the F-22. Significant effort is being placed on cockpit design and avionics fusion to improve the pilot's situational awareness. Advanced avionics technologies allow the F-22 sensors to gather, integrate and display essential information in the most useful format to the pilot.


Reduced observables:
Advances in low-observable technologies provide significantly improved survivability and lethality against air-to-air and surface-to-air threats. The F-22's combination of reduced observability and supercruise accentuate the advantage of surprise in a tactical environment.

Supersonic persistence:
The F-22's engines produce more thrust than any current fighter engine, especially in military (non-afterburner) power. Called "supercruise," this characteristic allows the F-22 to efficiently cruise at supersonic airspeeds without using afterburners. This capability greatly expands the F-22's operating envelope in both speed and range over current fighters that must use afterburner to operate at supersonic speeds.


Increased maneuverability:
The F-22 has been extensively designed, tested and refined aerodynamically during the demonstration/validation (dem/val) phase and the current Engineering and Manufacturing Development (EMD) phase. The F-22's sophisticated aero-design and high thrust-to-weight ratio provide the capability to outmaneuver all current and projected threat aircraft. To ensure the F-22 provides air dominance for deep-interdiction aircraft, it operates at medium and high altitude at ranges superior to current generation air dominance aircraft.

Improved reliability and maintainability: To ensure operational flexibility, the F-22 has better reliability and maintainability than any military fighter does in history. Increased F-22 reliability and maintainability pays off in less manpower required to fix the aircraft and consequently less airlift required to support a deployed squadron. Additionally, reduced maintenance support provides the benefit of reduced life-cycle cost and the ability to operate more efficiently from prepared or dispersed operating locations.


Increased lethality and survivability:
The above characteristics provide a synergistic effect that ensures F-22 lethality against an advanced air threat. The combination of reduced observability and supercruise drastically shrinks surface-to-air engagement envelopes and minimizes threat capability to engage and shoot the F-22.


Air-to-surface capability:
The F-22 has a secondary role to attack surface targets. The aircraft will be capable of carrying two 1,000-pound Joint Direct Attack Munitions (JDAMs) internally and will use on-board avionics for navigation and weapons delivery support.


Engines:
The F-22 will incorporate Pratt & Whitney's new F119 engine. Designed for efficient supersonic operation without afterburner use (supercruise), and with increased durability over today's engines, the F119 is a very high thrust-to-weight ratio engine. Advanced technologies in the F119 include integrated flight-propulsion controls and two-dimensional, thrust-vectoring engine nozzles.

Armament

The F-22 main armament includes 6 AIM-120C AMRAAMs which are carried in the each of the ventral bay on ARMAAM vertical ejector unit. The side bay carries the revolutionary GM-Hughes AIM-9X on the AIM-9 trapeze launcher (ATL). The ATL automatically extends out for the AIM-9X to lock on the target before firing.

The Raptor is also equipped with the M61A2 20-mm cannon; it is the lighter version of its predecessor, with composite wrapped barrels and a redesigned breech. The cannon is mounted above the right wing root.

In 1994 Lockheed was asked to add ground capability to the Raptor, the lower weapon bay was redesigned to accommodate the McDonnell Douglas 450kg JDAM.

Under stealth conditions, the F-22 is capable of carrying 2 JDAM, 2 AMRAAMs and 2 AIM-9X. But when stealth is not critical, the raptor is capable of carrying up to 2270kg of external load on each of the 4 pylon under the wing.

F-22 Comparisons

The F-22 was designed to replace the F-15 Eagle as a superiority fighter. Even though the F-15 is to be replaced, it is one of the world most success fighter. Having to achieve 96 kills and 0 losses, the Eagle is one of the most fear fighters in the world.
What the Eagle and other fighter of the US air force lacked against the Raptor are the Stealth, advance maneuverability and technology and agility.

The F-22 at alpha 15 degrees and above can roll twice as fast as an F-15 and its pitch rate are twice as fast as the F-16 Falcon. The Raptor also has twice the combat range radius compared to the F-15C at subsonic level and the difference should be greater at supersonic flight. The F-22 have 3 2300l fuel tank and with less drag it should be able to out perform an F-15 eagle of F-16 Falcon in any similar missions.

Logistically the F-22 also outperformed the F-15. The F-22 only supposedly needed 1/3 of maintenance hour compare to the Eagle, F-22s Equipment's are designed to be replaced at flight line rather than in an intermediate-level shop.

24 F-22 Raptors only requires 8 C-141B loads of equipment for a 30 day deployment compare to 18 C-141B for an F-15!! and only half the people are needed to support the F-22 than the F-15.

Fairy tale or not?

The proposed F-22B (the 2-seat version) was canceled to save money. The airforce believed that with the advanced technology and easy handling of the F-22 for students while the instructor would be able to link up with the Raptor with datalinks enabling the instructor to monitor the students performance like in the back seat of the plane.

The F-22 cost price was also expected to skyrocket. The proposed 648 fighters' fleet was cut to 438 (making each plane more expensive) and due to the budget cut the operating capability will be moved from 2001 to 2004.

The logistic support for the 438 fighters will cost $73.5 billion in "'97 cash". The cost of each of the F-22 was expected to skyrocket because the defense industry is expected to rise faster than the government inflation rate.

The cost of an F-22 in '97 would be 71 millions each (Euro fighter cost 50-60 million each). Export sale of the F-22 would ease the price; the sensitivity of the F-22 can be removed for export sales. Nations that are could be interested in the F-22 would include the F-15 operating nation such as Israel, Saudi Arabia and Japan.

But on the bright side, the F-22 does out perform against the Euro Fighter, the French Rafael and the Russian made SU-37 in thrust/weight ratio, wing loading at combat weight, internal fuel and flight limits. (Excluding stealth and advanced avionics)

Critics in Washington argue that Pentagon is incapable of funding 3 fighters at one time. (F-22, F-18E/F and the JSF) and the F-22 is no longer needed because the threat that the F-22 is designed for is no longer in existence and the F-15 and F-16 can carry the load until the JSF arrives! But airforce official argues that air supremacy is vital in an event of war.

As the Brigadier General James Fain put it


"The idea is to be back in the bar before the other guy knew what hit him"
July 19th, 2004  
Uncle_Sam
 
 
I think You don't know anything about Raptor, so educate yourself! and don't make yourself so smart, if You don't have anything to back your story up!

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...craft/f-22.htm