Just when you think the political situation here in Britain could not get worse, we read that our government wishes to press ahead with plans to build another 100 muslim state schools, in our small country. Even more division by decree. I cannot understand where they are going with this. It sure won't encourage integration.
Extra 100 Islamic schools.
The Other Guy
Spam King
Classes include "How to assemble pipe bombs"
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
That argument would hinge on whether the Catholic schools were government funded or not.
If I tried hard enough I guess the bright spot in the government doing this is that it would give them control of what was taught but outside that secular governments should be staying away from backing any religion.
Infern0
Banned
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
It's going to be an opportunity to teach young Muslims to reject extremism and accept life in Britain as it's not a bad life and if they have issues with it, they are free to emigrate to a Muslim country.
Education is the key to winning on the home front. Don't lie either because people aren't as stupid as the government hopes.
Education is the key to winning on the home front. Don't lie either because people aren't as stupid as the government hopes.
The Other Guy
Spam King
with flying colors.
With your previous post, infern0, I agree. If there can be thousands of catholic schools, then there can be thousands of jewish schools, muslim schools, hindu schools, etc.
Ah, I see. So you are in favour of religious schools then?
BTW - kindly do not use the word 'crying' when quoting me - it is misleading and demeaning. Politics make me angry - not tearful.
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Infern0
Banned
YOU felt free to call me ignorant the other day, im happy about my word choice here. "crying" has other uses than a discriptive for tears. such as "a rallying cry" for example. i thought i had made this pretty clear being that i used "crying out". but once again, feel free to PM me if you are confused on my meaning....rather than jumping to the worst conclussion as you have done again here today
back on topic
personally, no...i am against any state sponsored religious schools but i am MORE against it being fine for one faith, but not for another. i didn't see the british government closing catholic schools when the IRA was bombing and slinging mortors at heathrow 30 years ago
and i'm also objective enough to see that it may go some way to cool the fires of anti islam zealots such as your self....you want them to assimilate, this may get you that assimilation.
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senojekips
Active member
Personally I find all religious schools divisive. They may be good for bringing up good little Muslims etc., but I feel that they are bad for society as a whole.
First of all - stop calling upon me to pm you. I have no wish to do so, being pleased to stand on my open posts. I choose who i wish to pm. I do not jump to conclusions, I just see through your choice of phrase in these matters. I have already posted to make it clear that my reference to being ignorant was referring to a particular subject under discussion and was accurately directed. You can have no understanding whatsoever of the great immigration problems we encounter here, as I have had a greater population in my backyard than you have in your country. I therefore object to your insults on these issues. such as we have here once again. You have no reason at all to call me a 'zealot'. I fact my whole concern would identify me as an anti- zealot. I am not at all against Islam, I am against militant Islamic ideology being imposed upon my country. I live happily along side any who will afford me the same courtesy. You, on the other hand, slur catholics as IRA. I simply present the facts as they appear, it is unfortunate if you happen to find them unacceptable, but so do I. I have no fires - I am a fire-fighter here, as are a great many responsible citizens. My head is not buried in the sand.
I understand your position - you are against religious schools except when they suit your argument.
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
I agree.
The only real issue for me is whether they should be state funded or not, I tend to believe that the governments responsibility is to provide a suitable standard of education, after that if you want more you pay for it via private educational facilities of which religion, sports, military etc. are part of.
I would suggest that from the last part of this statement you clearly do not understand his position.
I think he made it fairly clear when he said...
Now I could be wrong but to me this says he doesn't support governments setting up and funding religious schools but does support the private formation of religious schools of any religion.
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Infern0
Banned
fair enough...your call, but i will say this; you have misunderstood my meaning or turn of phrase on multiple occasions now... and just as it has has happened here , it ends up derailing the discussion.
also redleg did suggest it as a good way to stop these slinging matches before the start the last time you overreacted
again, you misunderstand (either on purpose or not i dont know), whereas others get my position perfectly
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A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Infern0, my issue hasn't always been that they are Muslim. I have issues when a group has too much power over the people who have been elected to exercise power.
In Korea the problem is the Church. That's right. I'm Christian and I'm telling you that in Korea Churches are a problem. They have so much power that when it comes to certain matters they can almost overrule the government.
The case with the hostages in Afghanistan was an example. I believe the Korean government handled it horribly but it seemed like they had very little control. In Korea, a LOT of people, military, civilian, business, you name it, climb to the top through connections made at Church. It makes Church lobbyists extremely powerful in all areas of society. Of course usually they stay out because normally they don't have issues with what happens half way around the world but if the government tells them NOT to send missionaries to certain parts of the world, they will do it anyway and when it is not in the best interest of anyone to rescue those who disobeyed a lawful and practical order they will make sure the government makes it happen.
So when I'm critical of various Islamic schools in the West it's not simply because they are Muslim. I grew up in Muslim countries almost all of my teenage life, I've had several Muslim friends.
I understand it's complicated.
And this may sound funny but when there is a strong leader among the Muslim groups that goes against the extremists, sometimes it is best that the West do NOT overtly support him or her. Because when you do, the enemy can use that to prove that the person is simply a slave of the West.
It's complicated...
I think as long as it's done right, the Islamic schools may not be such a bad idea. But it's gotta be done right or it will backfire. State sponsored means there's better means for a certain level of monitoring. And who knows, maybe teacher or student exchange programs can better help people understand each other.
In Korea the problem is the Church. That's right. I'm Christian and I'm telling you that in Korea Churches are a problem. They have so much power that when it comes to certain matters they can almost overrule the government.
The case with the hostages in Afghanistan was an example. I believe the Korean government handled it horribly but it seemed like they had very little control. In Korea, a LOT of people, military, civilian, business, you name it, climb to the top through connections made at Church. It makes Church lobbyists extremely powerful in all areas of society. Of course usually they stay out because normally they don't have issues with what happens half way around the world but if the government tells them NOT to send missionaries to certain parts of the world, they will do it anyway and when it is not in the best interest of anyone to rescue those who disobeyed a lawful and practical order they will make sure the government makes it happen.
So when I'm critical of various Islamic schools in the West it's not simply because they are Muslim. I grew up in Muslim countries almost all of my teenage life, I've had several Muslim friends.
I understand it's complicated.
And this may sound funny but when there is a strong leader among the Muslim groups that goes against the extremists, sometimes it is best that the West do NOT overtly support him or her. Because when you do, the enemy can use that to prove that the person is simply a slave of the West.
It's complicated...
I think as long as it's done right, the Islamic schools may not be such a bad idea. But it's gotta be done right or it will backfire. State sponsored means there's better means for a certain level of monitoring. And who knows, maybe teacher or student exchange programs can better help people understand each other.
OK - straight question, cannot be misunderstood - do you consider religious schools divisive? Yes or no?
"
How better to do this than by all sharing the local state schools? That is what happened at my school.