Ex-Hostage Disputes U.S. on Iraq Shooting (AP) - Page 2




 
--
 
March 7th, 2005  
SwordFish_13
 
 
Hi,

Quote:
You were there then? Yeah so easy to miss. We shoot everybody who comes near those right? Puulleeaassee.

It's a War Zone and the Desicion is a Split Second one ............ it's either you or them ............ It was Dark, it was raining ............... and sometimes thisngs do go wrong .

And about Road Block ...... i have seen many Check Posts .......... all kind and Size ......... well thats what you get if you live in a terrorost prone area ............. and i have missed those Surprice Check post quite a few Times .....

Quote:
The shootings confirmed what for many Iraqis is a daily reality -- that U.S. forces are too quick to open fire and often kill innocent civilians in their efforts to crack down on insurgents, who killed at least 23 people in fresh attacks.

The U.S. military says it does all it can to minimise the risk of Iraqis and foreign civilians being killed.

The Bulgarian soldier was killed in southern Iraq on Friday, around the same time that U.S. forces in Baghdad opened fire on a vehicle taking kidnapped Italian journalist Giuliana Sgrena to the airport shortly after her captors freed her.

Sgrena was wounded in the shoulder and secret agent Nicola Calipari, who played a key role in her release, was killed. Italy laid on an state funeral in Rome on Monday for Calipari.

Bulgarian Defense Minister Nikolai Svinarov said an investigation into the death of the Bulgarian soldier showed he had probably been accidentally killed by American troops.

"Someone started shooting at our patrol from the west, and in the same direction, 150 meters (yards) away, there was a unit from the U.S. army," he told a news conference.

Spource

Peace
-=SF-13=-
March 7th, 2005  
Whispering Death
 
 
Here's all I'm saying, it was an accident, things like that tend to happen in war. Who'se fault it was for the accident is relatively unimportant compared to the rediculous allegation that it was a targeted assasination. Really? You think if we wanted to knock off a civilian we'd do it with regular infantry grunts who can leave the army in 6 months, write a tell-all book and make millions? Really, is that it?
March 7th, 2005  
Charge 7
 
 
Swordfish, you're talking about checkpoints that I assume are somewhere near India? And not manned by American forces? So your comparison doesn't hold water.

It was an unfortunate event. Nothing more. Her allegations are actually hurting her "cause" because they make her seem ludicrous and a liar. You're against American involvement in Iraq? Fine, but use facts and if you can't use facts at least make your story believable. Nobody's believing that woman besides those who wish to believe anything so long as it's anti-US.
--
March 7th, 2005  
A Can of Man
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SwordFish_13

Whether Anybody has ever Implemented True Marxism is open for debate.

Peace
-=SF-13=-
I told you, it failed before it even got there and that same thing happened in EVERY situation. The same failure every time. That should tell u something.
March 8th, 2005  
Redneck
 
 
13th_redneck, one more off-topic post here and you will be at least temporarily banned.



Like Charge_7 said, if this woman was being deliberately targetted, she would not have had the opportunity to tell any of these tall tales at all, and her claims to the contrary are not helping her credibility at all. And Swordfish, I don't care what condition you are in, two 67 ton M1s can't exactly hide behind a flower pot, there is absolutely no way that such a checkpoint would not have been seen. Another issue there is the so-called "rain of fire," coming from the tanks which apparently only killed one man in this vehicle, were it deliberate, there would have been no vehicle left.

Quote:
it's impossible to shoot a car on a road to the airport without giving any signal, any stop or any check.
I'm not sure how her position here differs from our own.
March 8th, 2005  
SwordFish_13
 
 
Hi,

Ok Charge_7 Lets first make sure what we are debating here .

First If you read My previous Posts .

1. I never said that She might had been delibrately targeted ........ throw it outa the box.

2. It was a Accident ........... BUT i said one of the Both sides or Both Sides Might be at fault ......... I would not Blindly take the Current statement until atleast the Investagiation is complete.

3. The News Articles i Post Does not necessarily Represent My openion or Sentiments . THEY are news Articles

Why are we Preassuming that US Solders can't be at Fault ........... Accedent; Sure it might have not been Intentional..

Even before many Solders have been killed by Friendly fire .?



Quote:
You were there then? Yeah so easy to miss. We shoot everybody who comes near those right? Puulleeaassee.
I too can get Scarsastic They Push the Gas whenever they see a US solders Waving at them

Quote:
two 67 ton M1s can't exactly hide behind a flower pot, there is absolutely no way that such a checkpoint would not have been seen
Night , Raining and a Ticket to Freedom waiting at the Airport ........ Still ?

Form some distance it might not be visible ... until you get close to it ...... and yes i am specaluting here same way you are we both were not present at that time .

Quote:
Mr Fini said the vehicle carrying the released hostage and agents was well-lit to facilitate checks.

However, it stopped after a powerful light was shone on it from the roadside and the shooting began immediately, without warning, he said.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~**~*~*~**~*~*

Quote:
Source:BBC News

Italy's foreign minister has demanded the US "identify and punish" those responsible for the death of an Italian intelligence agent in Iraq.

Gianfranco Fini said the US and Italy had different versions of what happened to Nicola Calipari, who died under US fire while escorting a freed hostage.

The US says shots were fired because the vehicle was speeding and did not heed troops' warnings for it to stop.

But Mr Fini said the car was travelling at no more than 40km per hour.

Calipari had also made "all the necessary contacts" with US and Italian officials about the hostage's release and the journey to the airport, he added.

The incident has intensified the already strong Italian opposition to the country's military presence in Iraq and put intense pressure on Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi's government to find answers.

The BBC's Tamsin Smith in Rome says Mr Fini's comments, which have pre-empted an investigation into the incident, were very much for domestic consumption.

Political observers in Rome say there is a serious problem of jurisdiction in any attempt to bring criminal proceedings, as the shooting took place in an area under US military control in a third country.

Calipari has become a national hero in Italy, and thousands came out onto the streets on Monday to applaud the funeral cortege.

'Truth and justice'

Mr Fini said the vehicle carrying the released hostage and agents was well-lit to facilitate checks.

However, it stopped after a powerful light was shone on it from the roadside and the shooting began immediately, without warning, he said

A volley of shots from automatic weapons followed, lasting 10-15 seconds, the foreign minister added.

The occupants of the vehicle were only identified by a second agent who was pulled from the car alive, he said.

Mr Fini did, however, reject the allegation made by freed hostage Giuliana Sgrena that the car was deliberately targeted as "groundless".

"We ask for truth and justice," he said. "We hope that within the next few hours this affirmed wish for loyal co-operation will yield its first major concrete result."

"We hope that this is not an opportunity to whip up political campaigns and to sow anti-American sentiment in public opinion, which certainly have no reason to exist."

Tuesday's Washington Times newspaper quoted a Pentagon memo as saying the Italian security forces appeared to have made no prior arrangement for Ms Sgrena's transfer to the airport.

It added that US troops are trained to fire on erratic speeding vehicles, a description which corresponds to the US version of events.

"This is war," the memo was quoted as saying. "About 500 American service members have been killed by hostile fire while operating on Iraqi streets and highways."
Peace
-=SF-13=-
March 8th, 2005  
Charge 7
 
 
Okay since it seems we're at an impass regarding the above how about this: you're traveling at night through a war zone. How smart was it not to even _try_ to coordinate your movements with the occupation force? A phonecall could've prevented the whole thing.
March 8th, 2005  
SwordFish_13
 
 
Hi,

Quote:
How smart was it not to even _try_ to coordinate your movements with the occupation force? A phonecall could've prevented the whole thing.
Charge_7 That's exactly what the Italian Foreign Minister is Babbling about ......... they did that ........ thats why the Italians are Up in Arms ........ According to Him all necessary Contats were made and US Solders should have known they were Coming that road ............ that's exactly why the Left all the Lights on for the US partols to identify them .

Here is what the Italy's Foreign Minister has to say :

Quote:
Source : Reuters

Fini Tuesday gave a long account of Calipari's fatal mission to Baghdad but made no mention of any ransom. He said Rome had never considered a military swoop to free Sgrena for fear such an operation would endanger her life.

He said Calipari arrived in Baghdad Friday afternoon after establishing contact with the kidnappers. He checked in with U.S. authorities at the airport before driving off with an Italian colleague to meet an Iraqi middleman.

The middleman took them to Sgrena, who was seated in the wreckage of a car, dressed in black robes and wearing a mask.

On the drive back to the airport, the Italians left the lights on in the car to help identify them to U.S. checkpoints.

As they neared the airport, the car slowed to about 40-km/h because the road was wet and because the driver had to make a sharp turning. Half way around the curve, a searchlight picked out the car and guns opened fire for 10-15 seconds, Fini said.

The intelligence officer who survived the attack was forced to kneel in the road until the soldiers realized who he was.

"Two young Americans approached our officer and, demoralized, repeatedly apologized for what had happened," Fini said.

Peace
-=SF_13=-
March 8th, 2005  
Charge 7
 
 
That only says he checked in when he arrived. It doesn't say squat about him letting them know he was on his way back.
March 8th, 2005  
A Can of Man
 
 
They should have made sure they joined an American escort vehicle or small convoy.
That's the only way to be really sure.