EU Holds Out Prospect of End to China Arms Embargo




 
--
 
December 9th, 2004  
texasrebel211
 

Topic: EU Holds Out Prospect of End to China Arms Embargo


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...nm/eu_china_dc

THE HAGUE (Reuters) - The EU told China on Wednesday it was not yet ready to end its 15-year-old ban on selling it arms, but suggested the embargo could be lifted in early 2005 despite opposition from human rights groups and Washington.


Imposed after Beijing's bloody crackdown on pro-democracy protestors in Tiananmen Square in 1989, the embargo on arms sales was expected to take center stage at a European Union (news - web sites)-China summit in the Netherlands.


But the agenda also included the prospect of China gaining dominance of the world textiles and clothing market after quotas are scrapped at the end of this month, and the EU's drive for an agreement on readmitting illegal Chinese immigrants.


Dutch Foreign Minister Bernard Bot, whose country is currently president of the 25-nation EU, said he hoped the arms ban would be lifted next year. "We are working assiduously but... the time is not right to lift the embargo," Bot told reporters as he went into the talks with Premier Wen Jiabao and four Chinese ministers. EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana told France's Europe 1 radio that he hoped for a decision on the embargo soon and suggested that it could come at the bloc's summit next March.


The United States, which sees China as a long-term strategic rival, has lobbied the EU against lifting the ban, citing a potential threat to Taiwan and to U.S. interests in Asia.


But France has led a drive to scrap the embargo, which could open up lucrative trade opportunities with the world's fastest-growing major economy. The EU's trade deficit with China stood at 64.2 billion euros ($86.34 billion) in 2003.


Human Rights Watch said in a statement ahead of the summit that the EU should not let "business interests trump its longstanding proclaimed commitment to human rights in China."


"China's army turned its guns on its own people (in Tiananmen Square) after receiving orders from the political leadership," the rights watchdog said. "If the ban is lifted, the next attack could be with weapons supplied by EU states."


The EU's executive Commission, along with Britain and Sweden, say Beijing must demonstrate progress on human rights.


They also want a new EU code of conduct on arms exports to ensure greater transparency and to ensure that equipment sold is not used in domestic repression or regional conflicts. Officials say the new rule book is likely to be agreed this month.


CHINA'S ECONOMIC POWER


New EU Trade Commissioner Peter Mandelson said in an article in Wednesday's Wall Street Journal Europe that the EU must handle carefully the continuing rise of Chinese economic power.


"The new China is a fact. Our aim should be to engage and influence, not to see China as a strategic threat," he wrote.


Nevertheless, EU officials said they would tell China at the summit that it should wield with care its potential to flood the world market with cheap clothing and textiles when a decades-old import quota systems ends on Jan. 1, 2005.


China made 17 percent of the world's textiles and clothes in 2003. The World Trade Organization (news - web sites) sees that market share rocketing above 50 percent within three years.


The U.S. administration has said it will not hesitate to restrict imports of clothing from China if domestic producers present a compelling case.


"If the U.S. closes its market, the Chinese goods will have to go somewhere else, and that could trigger a domino effect around the world," said a senior European Commission (news - web sites) official, suggesting that others could resort to so-called "safeguard measures" allowed under WTO rules to protect their industries.



discuss China and the EU in regards to weaopns

discuss :P
December 9th, 2004  
MadeInChina
 
64, my god, it was a frickin riot, not a masscre...

Ok, lemme put it this way, you are a PLA soldier, you have a gun, ppl are throwing rocks at you, molotovs even, and are ripping your clothes off while trying to grab your helmet, kicking you, punching you, making a bloody mess out of you... what would u do??? DIE?????
December 9th, 2004  
texasrebel211
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flak88
64, my god, it was a frickin riot, not a masscre...

Ok, lemme put it this way, you are a PLA soldier, you have a gun, ppl are throwing rocks at you, molotovs even, and are ripping your clothes off while trying to grab your helmet, kicking you, punching you, making a bloody mess out of you... what would u do??? DIE?????
lets not discuss this but rather the weapons ban against China, I think there are other reason besides what you are talking about
--
December 9th, 2004  
MadeInChina
 
well, thats one of the probelms provoking the ban isnt it??? 64,

btw, i think it would good to lift the ban, lots of capital flowing form asia to europe, benefiting EU and CHina, since china would get a kick out of euro weaponery.

The taiwanese would find made en francais very freightening on missile labels
December 9th, 2004  
godofthunder9010
 
 
Well, the Human Rights groups must have some good evidence of substantial wrongdoing by the People's Republic of China or nobody involved would have gone along with the emargo to begin with. Interesting considering some recent convos in other threads. What did China have to do or say to make the Human Rights Groups happy and get the embargo lifted? There is generally a way of getting it done. Guess it won't matter if all of it will be bypassed by the EU anyways, but I'm still curious. What was being asked of China in exchange for lifting the embargo??

Why on earth is it called "64" all the time anyways?? That makes no sense.
December 9th, 2004  
Kane
 
Quote:
"China's army turned its guns on its own people (in Tiananmen Square) after receiving orders from the political leadership," the rights watchdog said. "If the ban is lifted, the next attack could be with weapons supplied by EU states."
The Human Rights Activists aren't using their logic or even worse they're not using their brain. Nevertheless, it seems to me that they have no right to be influence in this decision. China is not interesting in buying European Bullets, Firearms, or vehicles. China is more interested in purchasing onboard Computer technology for military use, fighter aircraft parts, Missiles. The T-Square incident was the poorest example to support their side.

Nevertheless, I believe that the Arms Ban would do very little to project China's Military Capability since they have found an alternative with Russian Assistance.
December 9th, 2004  
godofthunder9010
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kane
Quote:
"China's army turned its guns on its own people (in Tiananmen Square) after receiving orders from the political leadership," the rights watchdog said. "If the ban is lifted, the next attack could be with weapons supplied by EU states."
The Human Rights Activists aren't using their logic or even worse they're not using their brain. Nevertheless, it seems to me that they have no right to be influence in this decision. China is not interesting in buying European Bullets, Firearms, or vehicles. China is more interested in purchasing onboard Computer technology for military use, fighter aircraft parts, Missiles. The T-Square incident was the poorest example to support their side.

Nevertheless, I believe that the Arms Ban would do very little to project China's Military Capability since they have found an alternative with Russian Assistance.
Why would anybody listen to the Human Rights Groups if there wasn't some very compelling evidence?? If they're full of crap, I give you the benefit of the doubt (its a pretty big stretch though) and concede that one or two nations could have been duped. But the entire membership of the European Union as well as the United States?? We're talking about some SERIOUSLY CONVINCING scam artists I'd say if your right and there is not truth to any of the allegations.

Would it be so very hard to admit that China maybe did it wrong at Tianamen Square? Maybe attacked non-violent protestors, order by the government?

But none of that is the intent of the topic. Naturally, China wants certain military hardware and the European Union isn't going to pass on making a ton of $$$$.
December 9th, 2004  
Kane
 
Quote:
Why would anybody listen to the Human Rights Groups if there wasn't some very compelling evidence?? If they're full of crap, I give you the benefit of the doubt (its a pretty big stretch though) and concede that one or two nations could have been duped. But the entire membership of the European Union as well as the United States?? We're talking about some SERIOUSLY CONVINCING scam artists I'd say if your right and there is not truth to any of the allegations.

Would it be so very hard to admit that China maybe did it wrong at Tianamen Square? Maybe attacked non-violent protestors, order by the government?
The old Communist Party Government acts very differently than the current leadership. Nevertheless, most Chinese are not willing to protest in large masses ever again (except for Hong Kong, but it was done in a more peaceful manner). They're more concerned about building a successful future in their lives and many of them not concerned about the "basic" rights of Democracy.

As you have said "attacked non-violent protestors, order by the government?"

Oh please, watch the video archives again. They started non-violently but turned into a unbelievably violent mob in the end. These protestors were from the generation who constantly recited Mao's Red Book. Remember what was Mao Zhe Dong's Red Book emphasis was? Violent rebellion.
December 9th, 2004  
A Can of Man
 
 
This is when an international guy like me runs into huge stumbling blocks and true loyalty to which side must be reconfirmed.
If Europe starts selling weapons technology to China, how are they not an ally of a hostile (to me anyway) state?
December 9th, 2004  
Kane
 
Self-interest.