Ethnicity, Racism, and the Armed Forces

I3BrigPvSk

The Viking
Racism and predigest attitudes toward different ethnic and religious groups exist in all societies. Sometimes these perceptions of others are very explicit and other times more hidden. The armed forces are a part of the society and the same problems exist in the ranks too. The military can attract people with extreme attitudes toward others. Have the members of the forum any experience of it?


I can only speak about the Swedish military and we faced during the conscription three different extreme groups. The left wing extremists, the right wing extremists (not necessarily Neo Nazis) and the group I call war romantics. The two political extremist groups had and still have the goal to change the society with a revolution and violence. The last group is/was not politically driven, they liked the military a bit to much and where is the line between liking the military life and to be a lose canon?

The majority were normal guys doing their time in the military

 
I came into the US Army in the mid ‘60’s, in the middle of our countries social and racial upheavals. My Protestant Irish Grandfather was a real raciest (we suspect he took part of the burning of the Black part of Tulsa OK just after WWI) and a definite anti-Catholic. My parents went to great effort to see that me and my siblings were not like my Grandfather in that aspect.

I was born and raised in S. CA and the only large minority I had contact with were Hispanic.

When I went in, the Army had been dealing with integration (meaning for the most part Black and White soldiers serving together (Hispanic’s, Asian’s, and Native Americans seemed to be more readily accepted)) for nearly 20 years. I’m sure there was still some institutional discrimination remaining but I don’t remember any direct experiences of it. The grandson (I believe) of the WWII Tuskegee Airman, Gen. Benjamin Davis was in my basic training class (along with many other blacks and other minorities), one whole company in my Bn was from Hawaii (National Guard). I’ve read reports from the era that state the military was the least racially discriminating institution in the US.

With the large civil rights movement came, what I can only describe, as reverse discrimination. I saw many, many examples of black soldiers (especially lower ranking soldiers) being blatantly disrespectful and flaunting many rules and regulations. The Officers and NCO’s very rarely reacted, I think they really didn’t know how to and were afraid for their careers (you had no career if your Efficiency Report rated you as “not supporting equal opportunities”, the Army‘s euphemism for race relations). We had frequent, mandatory “race relation” classes and I remember them all as immediately becoming a ***** session for the black soldiers.

In fairness this was the era of the Draft and there were many problems with lower ranking white soldiers as well, but the blacks were much more “in your face” about it. I still think many of the problems they faced (in the Army at this point) they caused themselves.

When MLK was assassinated I was put on a post “quick reaction force” in Germany just in case there was trouble. There were some minor incidents but really nothing to warrant our alarm.

This lasted into the ‘70’s when the draft ended and the Army started recruiting more women. I then saw the same thing happen again, although on a much smaller scale. The seemingly overnight appearance of all these women was new to us “old solders” and anything new in the Army is not usually well received.

It did not take long, however, for the girls to win us over (at least most of us) and female soldiers (like minority soldiers) just became part of the routine. I remember serving with US Soldiers from Korea, Israel, Austria, Germany, Ireland, Canada, Yugoslavia, S. America, Egypt, India, and Italy (that I remember) so it is apparent that the US Army is a pretty international force.

About mid way through my career I found there was still some institutional racism in the Army.

As I said my people are from OK and my mothers Grandfather was a full blood Creek Native American.

I was a member of the Muscogee (Creek) Nation of OK and despite providing documented proof of this the Army was very reluctant to allow this to be reflected on my records.

The reason my records didn’t reflect my ancestry was I was drafted in S. CA and, along with hundreds of others, was mass processed. My skin color does not reflect my heritage (I look white) so whoever filled out my forms listed me as Caucasian.
When I tried to find out why I could not get my records changed I was told (unofficially) that the Army had (has?) a quota system in promotions and assignments. If 15% of the Army is black then every attempt is made to promote 15% of eligible black soldiers; the same with other minorities. If I were to be officially listed as Native American I might get preference in promotion and assignments and the Army didn’t want to complicate matters any more than they already were.
The Army has to do this, otherwise the minorities would eventually be squeezed out of promotions by the numbers of whites in uniform.

I was told this by several pretty high level people and was also told the Army would
never admit the policy. The Army will, however, trot out the stat’s at any and every opportunity.

I don’t think this policy ever caused me any real problems, I got promoted and got assignments mostly as expected. They only delay in promotion was me staying far too long in a very low density MOS - meaning the only way to get promoted was for someone to retire or die. I took an opportunity to move to a much larger (and more challenging) career field and things went well for me.
 
I was in the UK Army in the 1950's and I never saw problems between any groups. The British army had been fighting with all sorts of Commonwealth Countries and Races and Religions and they had all earned respect from each other.
 
In the Belgian forces there are some frictions between the Dutch and French speaking military. There also used to be frictions between the ones who served in Belgium (we called them the 8 to 5 forces) and Germany (we were the 24/24 forces). The Dutch/French problem is more politcally motivated. Most of the Belgian ministers of defence were French speaking and most of the investments went to units based in the French speaking part of Belgium (the south).

In the 90's there was one incident in which we filed a complaint (I had to look it up in law books and put it on paper for the colonel). An NCO made a speech in Laken (near Brussels) to French and Dutch speaking soldiers (students). The speech was made in French and at the end he said (in French) " This also applies to the Dutch speaking soldiers". (et pour les flamands la meme chose)

In WWI 80% of the soldiers were Dutch. All the officers were French and the orders were only given in French.
 
Thank you guys for the replies,

Mike; interesting to read your experience from a first hand source about this turbulent time of the US history

LeEnfield; Britain has the commonwealth and the colonial history so the Brits are lesser hostile to others, I hope.

VDKMS; Belgium reminds in this aspect a bit of Finland, there are Swedish speaking units there and the majority of the Finnish officers were Finnish speaking. You never had the issues with the different extremist groups in Belgium? I assume Belgium had conscription, so you got people regardless if you wanted them or not.

I want to follow up with another question; when a country has a professional military which can attract people with extreme attitudes toward people from a different background, how do you detect them and preventing them the education?
In an American context; I can see a lot of problems down the road if a white supremacist (KKK) gets sniper training.

Sweden was pretty good to keep this people out and they were quite easy to detect. I presume Norway and Denmark were/are good to detect them as well, But I don't know.
 
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Thank you guys for the replies,

VDKMS; Belgium reminds in this aspect a bit of Finland, there are Swedish speaking units there and the majority of the Finnish officers were Finnish speaking. You never had the issues with the different extremist groups in Belgium? I assume Belgium had conscription, so you got people regardless if you wanted them or not.

In 2006 the police arrested 17 members of a group calle Blood & Honour (neo nazi) in the army barracks of Leopoldsburg. They were suspected of preparing terrorist attacks. Most of them were released very quickly.

The predecessor of our federal police (civilian control) was called Rijkswacht (gendarmerie) and was under military control. There were rumours that they once planned a coup in Belgium but that never materialized. But it is possible that this was one of the reasons to put it under civilian control.

The first year in my last unit I worked in the administration for one year. It was also the last year of conscription in Belgium. One conscript was from moroccan descent. He only showed up on pay day and then left. Everytime lots of paperwork. He once had a quarrel with someone of Greek descent. They both called each other racists. Very funny.

The next year I had to supervise students. One of the students was a muslim of Pakistani descent (very friendly and a good student). A collegue of mine wanted the kitchen personel to make separate meals for him because of his religion. Me and the other collegues opposed, arguing that if pork is served he does not have to eat it. The student himself never asked for personal favors because of his belief.

I want to follow up with another question; when a country has a professional military which can attract people with extreme attitudes toward people from a different background, how do you detect them and preventing them the education?
In an American context; I can see a lot of problems down the road if a white supremacist (KKK) gets sniper training.

Sweden was pretty good to keep this people out and they were quite easy to detect. I presume Norway and Denmark were/are good to detect them as well, But I don't know.

I think it is very difficult to detect those people, certainly if they are serving in a unit that is not hostile to such groups.

The Fort Hood incident showed that everything is possible.
 
I only ever saw racism at BCT from some countryside georgian rednecks (no offense) and our DS fixed that problem real quick. They stomped out discrimination real fast and threatened to kick people out if he ever heard it again during a long screaming and smoking session.
 
I only ever saw racism at BCT from some countryside georgian rednecks (no offense) and our DS fixed that problem real quick. They stomped out discrimination real fast and threatened to kick people out if he ever heard it again during a long screaming and smoking session.


I like your DS
 
Muscogee Mike had a very interesting and accurate post.

In the later days in VN there were some serious racial incidents. Some deaths resulted.
These were mostly amongst rear area troops who had more time for such things.
Blacks were experiencing a rising racial identity situation and segregated themselves more than anyone segregated them.
There was also at least one big riot on Okinawa youl never hear about.
Native Americans were such a small group that they tended to blend with the Palefaces. Same-same orientals.
The 60w were some complicated days.
 
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