Chocobo_Blitzer said:
But then there's that, you know, vowing to destroy Israel thing. See that's a problem, and with the US closely tied with Israel, that's the reason anyone with a US passport is targeted.
Long lasting war and conflict does terrible things to peoples minds and convictions. I don‘t blame the Arab nations, including Iran, for their stance towards Israel. I don’t blame Israel for holding its own either. I know the history of the conflict quite well and it‘s going to be one hell of a bugger to sort that mess out. No question about it... Israel is not the only reason that Americans are so loathed though. Our aggressive politics and Iraq is certainly a new and strong factor among others I don't want to elaborate on in this thread. Invading Iran would turn things dismal to say the least. We are doing all we can to maneuver us into the wrong direction.
Perhaps peace with Israel and Palestine would turn Iran around? All that hate just *poof*. I suppose Tony Blair has a reason for shooting at the Israel/Palestine problem foremost.
It’s not only Tony Blair. Every child with basic education should be able to make that realization. It is a vital key of stopping Islamic terrorism in the long term.
I’m no fool though, it can’t all be resolved peacefully. Highly organised cells like Al Qaida need to be singled out and taken down with united strenght, regardless.
But Iran is rushing to get a nuclear program, and it's not for peace. Of course you must try to pressure Iran before you use force, but it must stay on the table.
Weapons are never made for peace. Iran is building nuclear weapons for the same reason that other countries, including the USA are building them. The good old arms race, because we lack more important things to put our resources in. Correct me if I’m wrong, but as far as I can see, the only country that isn’t trying, that is in fact more than capable of producing them, yet chooses not to, is Germany.
But lets think about the nuclear scenario here for a moment.
As Flying frog has already mentioned, the nuclear standoff between two opposing nations gets everybody thinking. The Mullahs would be crazy to launch nukes at Israel. Technologically they are no match at all. It would be suicide. And thinking in these lines... Israel has nukes and highly sophisticated tech to deliver the load, have their fair share of religious freaks - should we be frightened? Should we maybe attack them when we have no more Muslims to battle?
But that isn’t all. For one, firing nukes at Israel would with absolute certainty hit the same people that Iran would be fighting for, the Palestinians. I don’t have to tell you about the geographical „borders“ of Israel. You know how they are set. If not, one glance at a map should answer this. It’s not a big science to place a center on the map and draw a circle with an area of effect. And then, Jerusalem is home to important sites to the Muslim religion. Religious leaders that fanatic wouldn’t destroy the basis of their belief. Haven’t you seen in Iraq how they react to this? It should be very obvious in any case, if you try with a bit of empathy. Oh and the Muslim neighbors, what would they say if nuclear loads would be delivered so close to home? The Arab league would be thrilled, I bet.
Their goal is to destroy Israel as a state, not turn a holy land into a uninhabitable crater.
I like how you try making the US out as some muslim suppressor, the patriot act is indeed worthy of question, but care telling me about anything else? Are there containment camps around or what?
I’m am a citizen, man. I am an American as well as a German, and I like my country. Well both actually. I may not throw myself into the dust whenever a flag rises, I never sing „America, America“ and don’t think that I as an American am gods gift to the world, because I don’t think that kind of patriotism, which I rather call nationalism, is very healthy. As a citizen who believes in democracy it is my duty (!) to point out shortcomings in my country. Many of my countrymen deem this blasphemy. Why? – I am sorry if my criticism may sound harsh sometimes, but this is no „I hate America“ crap. It is never my intention. I like the place. That is why I’m emotional about it. This personal note I just had to make, because I am aware of treading on hot grounds here.
There is something rotten in the US right now and we should open our eyes to it, because I in turn want to be able to look my kids into the eyes and tell them that they can be proud – but that’s not the point of this thread, so I’ll stop before a moderator is inclined to let his blood pressure rise.
Since you addressed the issue, and I’m glad you did, indeed there are containment camps run by the US where people are dragged to without trial on the basis of suspicion, tortured, defined at a whim and subjected to “tribunals” - how we like to call them. Guantanamo Bay is just one of them. We may call them prisons, but as long as the basic human rights and basic justice are revoked, they have the quality of containment camps. It is unworthy of a free society.
I'm sorry, but guess what, the terrorist group that attacked us- as well as their allies, are muslim. Of course muslim's will be the first to question.
I have heard a lot of stories, first hand, second hand and there is probably a lot of crap being told, agreed. Prejudice against Muslims in the US is a fact though. Try googling a bit. You will be appalled. It is apparent in this forum as well. I won‘t point it out, since I can understand it to some degree and I don’t want to attack anyone here. I like the way this forum is moderated and it wouldn’t be allowed in any case, would not make a difference or serve any useful purpose either – so no, I won’t do it.
I just want to drop the suggestion of maybe reading one of the books that might be published on this topic in the near future, if a publisher can be found that doesn’t fear a public devoid of self criticism. Maybe that will change a few mindsets.
Fear, we are living in a country run by fear and we are loosing touch with the principles that make us great.
