Enigma Machines - Page 5




 
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January 7th, 2016  
BritinAfrica
 
 
He's a complete and total idiot. Its a waste of time even attempting to discuss with him, he doesnt have a clue.
January 7th, 2016  
lljadw
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOC
1) Wrong: Yes he French expected a repeat of the Von Shlieffen plan, not an attack thru the rugged Ardennes forest.

2) Wrong: yes the mock allied army (Operation Fortitude) setup in the south of England helped to convince Hitler that the attack would occur in the Pas de Calais. This was an elaborate plan and highly successful plan of disinformation for the enemy. As a result most of the German forces were either stated at the Pas de Calais or held in reserve. This was called Patton’s phantom army and was one of history’s prime examples of disinformation being used successfully for intelligence. The Germans fell for hook line and sinker.

3) Wrong: Yes This is why a greater number of panzer and SS divisions were moved to AGS thus stripping AGC of vitally needed resources while they faces the blunt of operation Bagration. General Busch was woefully under equipped to meet the Red offensive. By the time the reinforcements arrived and Field marshal Model was in charge it was too late the momentum was lost as was the battle.
3 times wrong :

1) There was no Schlieffen plan in 1940 and the French did NOT expect such a plan : already in 1936 the French expected the main German attack to happen NORTH of the Ardennes :from the north of Holland to Liège,and they were right . The campaign would be decided in Flanders . And it was decided in Flander, not in the Ardennes .

2) NO : the Germans did not fall for Fortitude : 15 Army in the Pas de Calais was not sent to Normandy,because it could not be sent and because it would be useless in Normandy : I presume that you have heard of the Bodenständige divisions ?

3)NO : the mobile divisins were "given " to AGNU because AGNU needed them : there was a crisis there BEFORE Bagration .
January 7th, 2016  
lljadw
 
5 june 1944 : 3 German operational PzD near Normandy, ONE near the Pas de Calais : conclusion : on 5 june the Germans did not think that the main attack would happen on de Pas de Calais .But,they also did not think that the main attack would happen in Normandy (although Hitler thought otherwise).

D Day + 7 : Normandy : 4 PzD (+ 1 moving) ;Pas de Calais : NOT ONE

D Day + 14 : Normandy 4 PzD ( +3 moving :1,9,10 SS) : Pas de Calais : NOT ONE

Conclusion : Fortitude had no influence on the German strategy .
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January 7th, 2016  
JOC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lljadw
5 june 1944 : 3 German operational PzD near Normandy, ONE near the Pas de Calais : conclusion : on 5 june the Germans did not think that the main attack would happen on de Pas de Calais .But,they also did not think that the main attack would happen in Normandy (although Hitler thought otherwise).

D Day + 7 : Normandy : 4 PzD (+ 1 moving) ;Pas de Calais : NOT ONE

D Day + 14 : Normandy 4 PzD ( +3 moving :1,9,10 SS) : Pas de Calais : NOT ONE

Conclusion : Fortitude had no influence on the German strategy .
I have no idea how to even interpret this post or what it means?

You seem to be the only one who doesn't think Operation Fortitude wasn't a resounding success. One of the most brilliant intelligence success's in all history.

I's a fact that a much greater number of German forces remained stationed in the Pas de Calais region until after the invasion.
January 7th, 2016  
JOC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lljadw
3 times wrong :

1) There was no Schlieffen plan in 1940 and the French did NOT expect such a plan : already in 1936 the French expected the main German attack to happen NORTH of the Ardennes :from the north of Holland to Liège,and they were right . The campaign would be decided in Flanders . And it was decided in Flander, not in the Ardennes .

2) NO : the Germans did not fall for Fortitude : 15 Army in the Pas de Calais was not sent to Normandy,because it could not be sent and because it would be useless in Normandy : I presume that you have heard of the Bodenständige divisions ?

3)NO : the mobile divisins were "given " to AGNU because AGNU needed them : there was a crisis there BEFORE Bagration .

I've already debated 2ce with you on this post about these 3 cases, it's pointless. You don't debate you dictate. Your not not willing to try and learn or observe the total viewpoint. Behaving instead as some kind of historic - political know it all. So you've read a few books that may or may not be in error. You are probably young, without time in service and worse of all totally unwilling to listen.
January 7th, 2016  
lljadw
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOC
I have no idea how to even interpret this post or what it means?

You seem to be the only one who doesn't think Operation Fortitude wasn't a resounding success. One of the most brilliant intelligence success's in all history.

I's a fact that a much greater number of German forces remained stationed in the Pas de Calais region until after the invasion.
Which does not mean that this was caused by Fortitude :the mean reason that only few reinforcements were sent to Normandy was a shortage of transport capacity .

For a "normal " day 7 Army needed 3200 ton of transport capacity, for a "attacking " day :4500 ton,but on the average only 1300 ton was available .
January 7th, 2016  
lljadw
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOC
You are probably young, without time in service and worse of all totally unwilling to listen.
No : you have been indoctrinated with the old stories of Fortitude, Hitler who slept till noon,etc,and you stick to these Hollywoof fairytales and refuse to consider other possibilities, and , as last refuge, you resort to the authorative argument : I have been in service, thus: shut up .
January 7th, 2016  
lljadw
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOC
I have no idea how to even interpret this post or what it means?
It is very simple : after DDay, no reinforcements were sent to the Pas de Calais,it was the opposite : the only PzD north of the Seine was sent to Normandy : this proves that the Germans were not convinced that there would be a second landing on the Pas de Calais .
January 7th, 2016  
BritinAfrica
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lljadw
It is very simple : after DDay, no reinforcements were sent to the Pas de Calais,it was the opposite : the only PzD north of the Seine was sent to Normandy : this proves that the Germans were not convinced that there would be a second landing on the Pas de Calais .
Hitler was convinced that the Normandy landing were a feint, the real landings were going to at the Pas de Calais. The only senior officer who was convinced that the Normandy landings were the real landings was Erwin Rommel.
January 7th, 2016  
JOC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lljadw
It is very simple : after DDay, no reinforcements were sent to the Pas de Calais,it was the opposite : the only PzD north of the Seine was sent to Normandy : this proves that the Germans were not convinced that there would be a second landing on the Pas de Calais .
It was not after D-Day, but before D-Day that hoax was perpetrated for. So that the 400 thousand some odd German combat troops in northern France would be delayed and not interfere with the landing, and for the most part they didn't. No Panzer divisions were even present at the landing and yes Hitler was asleep and this caused even further delays due to his micromanaging the German Army.

If you served why are you not proud enough of it to but it on your profile? Are you hiding something.
 


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