ELECTION PROGRESS
mmarsh
Active member
Of course, most people in the world don't believe in the Bible, just like I am sure you dont believe that you dont believe in the Koran. And there are MUCH more people that follow the Koran than the Bible.
If you look back in History, Religious policy has been a pretty lousy basis for establishing or running a government, as it usually ends up in genocide.
Damien is right. Washington is very cosmopolitan.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
America must have been a very safe place.
There was plenty to be scared about when I was growing up.
Back in the early 90's South and North Korea nearly went to war and that was one of the very rare times I lived in South Korea for a brief period. A AAA battery was set up in a flat patch of land next to our school, they were running gunnery practice, people were emptying the supermarkets...
Indonesia in 1998 was also pretty mad. Chinese people were getting raped, murdered and looted and the city was on fire and you could hear gunfire as well... the 1998 floods in Seoul which killed 200 people in one night but apparently claimed 2000 in China. Then there was 9/11, anthrax, those two gay snipers... I can't believe I was there for all of this crap.
Historically the earth has been warmer than it is now on several occasions. We're going to have to deal with ice caps melting regardless of what we do with our emissions. We can bring it down to zero and take back all the stuff we've thrown into the air and we will still get to a temperature where grapes will grow in southern Scotland.
The world's a dangerous and scary place.
Deal with it. But don't let it stop you from going to the game this weekend.
McCain wins Missouri in close race against Obama
1 hour ago
JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. (AP) — Republican John McCain has defeated President-elect Barack Obama in Missouri — the last state to be decided in the 2008 presidential election.
McCain's narrow victory over Obama breaks a bellwether streak in which Missourians had picked the winning presidential candidate in every election since 1956.
With all jurisdictions reporting complete but unofficial results, McCain led Obama by 3,632 votes Wednesday out of more than 2.9 million cast — a margin of 0.12 percentage points.
Both men spent considerable resources trying to win Missouri, a state that Obama ultimately did not need for his national victory.
Obama won 365 electoral votes. Missouri's 11 electoral votes will give McCain 173.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gM915mSy-nTNlmHVv5-9imtaRq5AD94I79IO0
1 hour ago
JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. (AP) — Republican John McCain has defeated President-elect Barack Obama in Missouri — the last state to be decided in the 2008 presidential election.
McCain's narrow victory over Obama breaks a bellwether streak in which Missourians had picked the winning presidential candidate in every election since 1956.
With all jurisdictions reporting complete but unofficial results, McCain led Obama by 3,632 votes Wednesday out of more than 2.9 million cast — a margin of 0.12 percentage points.
Both men spent considerable resources trying to win Missouri, a state that Obama ultimately did not need for his national victory.
Obama won 365 electoral votes. Missouri's 11 electoral votes will give McCain 173.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gM915mSy-nTNlmHVv5-9imtaRq5AD94I79IO0
Chief Bones
Forums Grumpy Old Man
The fat lady is singing .....
THE FAT LADY IS SINGING .....
In all but a couple of the senatorial/congressional races, the results ARE in ... and now the GOP/Republicans are setting around in a daze playing the blame game ... and ... ruminating as to what went wrong and where they are going to go from here.
How they could have been so far off the mark as to what Americans are concerned about is beyond their ken. They believe that 'somebody must be responsible" for the debacle ... after all, it couldn't have been their fault that the message that was being ignored by McCain/Palin and the GOP/Republican Party, was the wrong message - heavens no.
It sure couldn't have been the 500 pound Gorilla and 400 pound Gorilla that was present at every single rally or debate and was being carried by every single GOP/Republican candidate during the entire election process (GW Bush, the GOP/Republican legislators that served as "yes men" for GW's administration and the economy which they impacted with their decisions). After all, GW Bush IS the poster child of the GOP/Republican party.
If the election isn't all but over, I would sure like to know when it will be. Obama/Biden are President Elect and Vice President Elect and all we are waiting for is the swearing in ceremonies. The other couple of in doubt races, will be resolved and we will proceed from there.
SJ .............
THE FAT LADY IS SINGING .....
In all but a couple of the senatorial/congressional races, the results ARE in ... and now the GOP/Republicans are setting around in a daze playing the blame game ... and ... ruminating as to what went wrong and where they are going to go from here.
How they could have been so far off the mark as to what Americans are concerned about is beyond their ken. They believe that 'somebody must be responsible" for the debacle ... after all, it couldn't have been their fault that the message that was being ignored by McCain/Palin and the GOP/Republican Party, was the wrong message - heavens no.
It sure couldn't have been the 500 pound Gorilla and 400 pound Gorilla that was present at every single rally or debate and was being carried by every single GOP/Republican candidate during the entire election process (GW Bush, the GOP/Republican legislators that served as "yes men" for GW's administration and the economy which they impacted with their decisions). After all, GW Bush IS the poster child of the GOP/Republican party.
If the election isn't all but over, I would sure like to know when it will be. Obama/Biden are President Elect and Vice President Elect and all we are waiting for is the swearing in ceremonies. The other couple of in doubt races, will be resolved and we will proceed from there.
HOPEFULLY, OBAMA WILL STAY CENTER OF THE ROAD AND WILL BE ABLE TO UNDO SOME OF THE MISTAKES LEFT OVER FROM THE PROCEEDING PRESIDENCY, ADMINISTRATION AND YES MEN/WOMEN LEGISLATORS.
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
You know looking at the percentage difference in the final result I think McCain ran the better campaign of the two, given the disparity in finances and the fact that he had to contend with being linked to one of most unpopular administrations in history only finishing 5% behind Obama was an exceptional effort.
I am of the opinion that had McCain chosen a more mainstream running mate with a little bit more political experience and some appeal to the middle of the road voter he would have won.
I am of the opinion that had McCain chosen a more mainstream running mate with a little bit more political experience and some appeal to the middle of the road voter he would have won.
senojekips
Active member
You certainly have that right Chief. The only trouble is that I can't hear her singing, the world wide collective sigh of relief is drowning her out.
I just want to hear what all the hullabaloo over Sarah the God sent VP has degenerated into. Prior to the election I was saying that she was a millstone, now I can't get a word in edgeways for the Republicans all agreeing with me. I have noticed that another very vocal pundit who was always telling me I had no idea, has disappeared into the woodwork too, although it's of no consequence as I put his drivel on the ignore list, but he is certainly noted by his absence.
I just want to hear what all the hullabaloo over Sarah the God sent VP has degenerated into. Prior to the election I was saying that she was a millstone, now I can't get a word in edgeways for the Republicans all agreeing with me. I have noticed that another very vocal pundit who was always telling me I had no idea, has disappeared into the woodwork too, although it's of no consequence as I put his drivel on the ignore list, but he is certainly noted by his absence.
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Chief Bones
Forums Grumpy Old Man
No sneezing powder necessary ........
I totally disagree ... America could NOT afford another term of GW Bush "politics as usual".
That is what McCain represented - more of the same ... and ... the voters knew that ... which is why the election WAS so lopsided (remember it is the Electoral College vote that counts ... not the popular vote). In this case though, the Electoral College vote and the popular vote [by at least 8.2 million votes], was won by the same candidate ... and ... those number are nothing to be sneezed at (it doesn't require sneezing powder to figure this one).
Monty ............
I totally disagree ... America could NOT afford another term of GW Bush "politics as usual".
That is what McCain represented - more of the same ... and ... the voters knew that ... which is why the election WAS so lopsided (remember it is the Electoral College vote that counts ... not the popular vote). In this case though, the Electoral College vote and the popular vote [by at least 8.2 million votes], was won by the same candidate ... and ... those number are nothing to be sneezed at (it doesn't require sneezing powder to figure this one).
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
Yeah although when determining the popularity of a candidate I do not believe you can use the electoral college "all or nothing" approach as a true measure.
The reality of this election is that Obama should have won it in a landslide McCain had everything going against him including being outspent by in places 8 to 1 and the popular vote does not translate into a landslide for Obama.
Chief Bones
Forums Grumpy Old Man
Monty ...........................
Oh well ...
I guess you and I have a different perspective on a clean win. To me, 8.2 million votes when all is said and done, is a pretty respectable margin. Percentages mean absolutely nothing when you are talking that big a number.
BTW, in the U.S. ... it IS the Electoral College "all or nothing" that counts - without it, you CAN win the popular vote and still not end up being the President Elect - you end up being an also ran.
And being outspent 8 to 1 didn't mean a hill of beans this time around. In the end, it was a bad message that beat McCain/Palin (don't believe that ... then you need to revisit the exit polls), they were very specific as to why the voters voted as they did.
I mentioned it before ... hint ... a 500 pound gorilla, a 400 pound gorilla and the economy ... not necessarily in that order ... and ... all preceded by off-issue messages.
BritinBritain
Per Ardua Ad Astra
The Other Guy
Spam King
No, this is how Obama got elected:
Damien435
Active member
McCain had to cozy up to Bush to win the primaries because only the base votes in the primaries and the base for the Republican Party would be that 20-30% of respondents who say that Bush is doing a good job. Unfortunately the tactics necessary to win the party's nomination are often counter productive when trying to win the general election and McCain did too good a job acting like a conservative the last two years so that people actually thought he was a conservative.
mmarsh
Active member
TOG and Chief Bones.
Everyone here knows I am no fan of the President. However, I honestly think that McCain loss wasn't entirely due to George W Bush. Yes Bush was a considerable drag on the Campaign but that would have been true of ANY candidate the GOP nominated. But McCain made some very serious gaffes that he was severely punished for by the electorate. These include:
1. His denial that the economy was in dire straights. His "the fundamentals of the the economy are strong" statement proved his earlier statement of "I am not not an economist" eerily correct. How out of touch does one have to be to make a statement like that at watch the Stock market tumble 700pts 2 days later. By the end of that very same week he "suspended" his campaign in order to "save" the economy. In other words on Monday that October he thought the Economy was fine, but by Thursday he's racing to Washington to save it. Not only did he came-off as being the same type of reality-denier as Bush it was one of the worst campaign ploys ever used, and was so blatenly obvious that even the GOP radio pundits were neither fooled nor amused.
2. The dirty tricks, smears, and half-truths told about Obama left a nasty taste in everyone's mouth. It was so bad that even KARL ROVE wrote a op-ed about it, saying that McCain was stretching the 100%-truth test (Roves own words). That stuff worked in 2000 and 2004, but by 2006 it was clear that people had caught on and didn't like to those types of cheap shots, why McCain continued to use negative tactics when they didn't work for Hillary Clinton earlier this year is beyond me.
3. The BIG ONE. The Sarah Palin nomination. I remember having a discussion with a moderator here about this, I knew that this was the nail in the coffin for the McCain campaign. Instead of picking a Intelligent, experienced moderate like Kaine, Romney or even Lieberman. He chose a far-right wing radical, who was not only under a ethics investigation cloud, but had absolutly with no experience IN ANYTHING outside of Alaska. And while her nomination was a obvious high-five to the religious radicals, the average US citizen with pocketbook problems was less than amused to say the least. AND WORSE, this woman had her own political agenda which actively impeded McCain Campaign. There were times I thought Palin was a Democrat operative because she did more damage to the McCain campaign than Obama did, I mean just look at the Katie Couric interview...that disaster was like the sinking of the Titanic. To pick a person whose views so closely resembled Bush in almost everything but sex, it was simply hitting the AUTO-DESTRUCTION button of his campaign.
Everyone here knows I am no fan of the President. However, I honestly think that McCain loss wasn't entirely due to George W Bush. Yes Bush was a considerable drag on the Campaign but that would have been true of ANY candidate the GOP nominated. But McCain made some very serious gaffes that he was severely punished for by the electorate. These include:
1. His denial that the economy was in dire straights. His "the fundamentals of the the economy are strong" statement proved his earlier statement of "I am not not an economist" eerily correct. How out of touch does one have to be to make a statement like that at watch the Stock market tumble 700pts 2 days later. By the end of that very same week he "suspended" his campaign in order to "save" the economy. In other words on Monday that October he thought the Economy was fine, but by Thursday he's racing to Washington to save it. Not only did he came-off as being the same type of reality-denier as Bush it was one of the worst campaign ploys ever used, and was so blatenly obvious that even the GOP radio pundits were neither fooled nor amused.
2. The dirty tricks, smears, and half-truths told about Obama left a nasty taste in everyone's mouth. It was so bad that even KARL ROVE wrote a op-ed about it, saying that McCain was stretching the 100%-truth test (Roves own words). That stuff worked in 2000 and 2004, but by 2006 it was clear that people had caught on and didn't like to those types of cheap shots, why McCain continued to use negative tactics when they didn't work for Hillary Clinton earlier this year is beyond me.
3. The BIG ONE. The Sarah Palin nomination. I remember having a discussion with a moderator here about this, I knew that this was the nail in the coffin for the McCain campaign. Instead of picking a Intelligent, experienced moderate like Kaine, Romney or even Lieberman. He chose a far-right wing radical, who was not only under a ethics investigation cloud, but had absolutly with no experience IN ANYTHING outside of Alaska. And while her nomination was a obvious high-five to the religious radicals, the average US citizen with pocketbook problems was less than amused to say the least. AND WORSE, this woman had her own political agenda which actively impeded McCain Campaign. There were times I thought Palin was a Democrat operative because she did more damage to the McCain campaign than Obama did, I mean just look at the Katie Couric interview...that disaster was like the sinking of the Titanic. To pick a person whose views so closely resembled Bush in almost everything but sex, it was simply hitting the AUTO-DESTRUCTION button of his campaign.
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Surprising that he did so well then, relatively speaking. Did he end up the most popular loser ever, as the pollsters were suggesting, unseating Al Gore? Or did the final count overtake him?
Oh, and we have left out the advantage of immensely greater funding!
And the elephant in the room - Financial melt-down, which would have unseated any candidate of the party in power at the time.
No matter - the answer is now blowing in the wind; the poisoned chalice has moved on. Perhaps John was lucky.
All I have to say is Hail to the Chief, and God Bless America.
Oh, and we have left out the advantage of immensely greater funding!
And the elephant in the room - Financial melt-down, which would have unseated any candidate of the party in power at the time.
No matter - the answer is now blowing in the wind; the poisoned chalice has moved on. Perhaps John was lucky.
All I have to say is Hail to the Chief, and God Bless America.
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MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
I don't disagree with any of this but when you take it into account it is somewhat surprising McCain managed anything more than the diehard Republican vote (roughly 35%) and yet he managed what 46%, on top of this if you look at numbers Obama won 73 of his Electoral College votes by less than 3% and 26 of those by less than 1%.
Because of this I tend to believe that had McCain chosen a campaign that suited the mood of the nation and picked a better running mate it would have been a much closer contest, it is my opinion that picking a far right VP candidate to "galvanise the base" was the wrong move as it is extremely unlikely that grass roots Republicans were ever going to vote for Obama anyway he should have chosen a candidate that was going to appeal to the centerists.
Chief Bones
Forums Grumpy Old Man
Not just the gorillas ..........
Guys ............
I can't really disagree with any of you ... McCain stubbed his toes in so many ways during the campaign (the least being his choice of running mate). It is my opinion that no matter what he did, he was destined to lose ... the last 8 years being the biggest reason. I called GW Bush, McCain's 90% voting record, GW's administration and the GOP/Republicans the gorillas in the room ... and ... I don't believe I was far off the mark. Every single poll (no matter where it was held), indicated that American voters overwhelmingly believed the country was going in the wrong direction on just about every single issue that was listed on the polls. Add in the economic collapse just before the election, and the odds against a GOP/Republican "win" in any but the most staunchly supported areas, was doomed to failure.
The frosting on the cake ... was the tenor of the McCain/Palin/GOP/Republican campaign'(s), off issue and dirty rhetoric laden campaign (as viewed by most American voters).
Guys ............
I can't really disagree with any of you ... McCain stubbed his toes in so many ways during the campaign (the least being his choice of running mate). It is my opinion that no matter what he did, he was destined to lose ... the last 8 years being the biggest reason. I called GW Bush, McCain's 90% voting record, GW's administration and the GOP/Republicans the gorillas in the room ... and ... I don't believe I was far off the mark. Every single poll (no matter where it was held), indicated that American voters overwhelmingly believed the country was going in the wrong direction on just about every single issue that was listed on the polls. Add in the economic collapse just before the election, and the odds against a GOP/Republican "win" in any but the most staunchly supported areas, was doomed to failure.
The frosting on the cake ... was the tenor of the McCain/Palin/GOP/Republican campaign'(s), off issue and dirty rhetoric laden campaign (as viewed by most American voters).
ULTIMATELY - McCain didn't stand a chance.
I think we can count Fred Thompson out for 2012. While Mike Huckabee is already heading for Iowa, Thompson is going back to acting:
Thompson to Accept TV Offers Over RNC Job
Sunday, November 23, 2008
NASHVILLE, Tenn. -- Former U.S. Sen. Fred Thompson is going back to the small screen after his foray into Republican presidential politics over the last year.
Thompson, best known on TV for his role as a gruff district attorney on NBC's "Law & Order," dropped out of the crowded GOP primaries in January after his much-anticipated presidential campaign failed to gain strong support among conservatives.
He campaigned heavily for eventual nominee John McCain, and had recently tried to gain support to be in charge of the Republican National Committee.
But his former finance chairman, B.C. "Scooter" Clippard, said Thompson told him Wednesday that he was returning to acting and dropping his RNC bid.
"He seriously considered it, but he called and said that it was not in the cards," Clippard said.
Clippard said he did not know which television programs might be interested in Thompson.
"He has some wonderful opportunities back in the television market that probably financially far outweigh being chair of the RNC," Clippard said.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2008/11/23/thompson-accept-tv-offers-rnc-job/
Thompson to Accept TV Offers Over RNC Job
Sunday, November 23, 2008
NASHVILLE, Tenn. -- Former U.S. Sen. Fred Thompson is going back to the small screen after his foray into Republican presidential politics over the last year.
Thompson, best known on TV for his role as a gruff district attorney on NBC's "Law & Order," dropped out of the crowded GOP primaries in January after his much-anticipated presidential campaign failed to gain strong support among conservatives.
He campaigned heavily for eventual nominee John McCain, and had recently tried to gain support to be in charge of the Republican National Committee.
But his former finance chairman, B.C. "Scooter" Clippard, said Thompson told him Wednesday that he was returning to acting and dropping his RNC bid.
"He seriously considered it, but he called and said that it was not in the cards," Clippard said.
Clippard said he did not know which television programs might be interested in Thompson.
"He has some wonderful opportunities back in the television market that probably financially far outweigh being chair of the RNC," Clippard said.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2008/11/23/thompson-accept-tv-offers-rnc-job/