El Paso Border Patrol shooting murky (AP)

Do you mean the Peraza's shooting IN 2003?

Rocks are considered dangerous instruments and the expectation of death isn't necessary to use deadly force, serious injury is. First World Countrys? Go ask around Belfast or Derry I'm sure they have stories.

The Mexican Police and Military violate our borders all the time. Some of the biggest robbery gangs on the border are Mexican Policia Federale, our goverment knows they operate here and says nothing, people disappear from the streets in Hidalgo County, El Paso County, Starr County, Nogalas, all the damned time and end up held for ransom in Mexico or their bodies turn up in Mexico and our goverment says nada. We are closing portions of Federal land in the border country because it's controlled by smugglers protected by Mexican Police and military our goverment says nothing. We stop fencing the border because our goverment says the borders are secure.....right.

WMD? Dramatic much? Dangerous instrument capable of causing serious injury.

Carpet Bomb? Dramatic much again? The Mexican Police throw shots over the border all the time.They just suck as marksmen.In the 80's the San Diego PD had a Border Robbery Unit that operated in the Otay Mesa Deadmans Canyon corridor of the gunfights they were in over half were with TJ police, Mexican Judical Police, Mexican Customs and Mexican Federal Police in the US.

Lets get over this teenager crap too. On the Border if you are a poor kid on the South Side of Rio Bravo by 15 you have jumped the Bravo or went to work and are a bread winner. This isn't a US suburban kid who goes to school and comes home to play XBox and talk on his cell. This little teenager was a hard bad MF'er and thats life on the border.

But don't worry mmarsh I'm sure given the DHS command and Holder, Obama and Clintoon this BPA will have his juevos slow roasted and stewed in salsa verde to make Calderon happy and you can feel all vindicated.
 
mmarsh said:
Although they do mention that incidents with rocking throwing are more commonplace at the border they point out that there have been only been 3 LEO killed by rocks since 1792 the last one was 70 years ago.

So while Ill grant you that its theoretically possible to be killed by a rock, its extremely unlikely. There have been more cops killed in horse-related accidents than by rocks. So the idea that the teen was wielding a rock like a WMD and that the BP agent was absolutely forced to defend himself carries little water. I simply cannot believe the BP had no other choice but the use of his firearm, and its not the first time the BP has gotten in trouble for being too itchy on the trigger. I refer to the Olveres incedent in 2003.
Click to expand...

Marsh,
In the first paragraph you state there have been only 3 BP agents killed since 1792, with rocks.
In the second paragraph you say it is theoretically possible to kill someone.
Well which one is it?

I certainly hope if someone breaks into your house and threatens you with a rock you will have the sense to practice what you preach. That is, retreat farther into your house or run away.

03 and Sky :bravo:
 
Sky

I am only disagreeing with you so chill out! I am neither screaming at you nor insulting you. If you cant handle someone with a different opinion without freaking out I suggest that go find another forum. Otherwise, I might forget I am talking to a lady and make this conversation very personal which I guarantee you will not like. So lets all just stay civil, shall we?

This case is about a cop shooting someone allegedly throwing a rock -thats it. What else goes on at the border, what problems there are (which I do not deny) are not pertinent to this thread.

We don't have 2 different sets of laws (one concerning the border one that doesn't) in America, we have only one. Cops all of the world deal with rocks all the time in places FAR more dangerous than the Mexican border, and they don't gun people down on the street.

HokieMsG

Its BOTH thats the entire point. The point I am making is that yes technically its possible to kill someone with a rock the number of incidents of it happening are so low thats its ridiculous to suggest that a rock is a deadly weapon. I could show a case of some murdered by a plastic fork, than doesn't make a plastic fork a deadly weapon. This is what I meant by "disproportionate use of force". I am sure the BP agent had other options rather than his firearm. Firearms are supposed to be of last resort. If someone broke it my house armed with a rock, I wouldn't shoot him because I'd be laughing my a** off. BTW, how many cases do you know of a intruder threatening someone with a rock? I think I just proved my theory.

The BP officer has been suspended and is under investigation, for his sake he has better have an ironclad argument of why this kid posed an immediate threat that required lethal force.

USMC03

The British didn't use live ammo on rock throwers in Londonderry or Belfest. They used CS gas, water cannon, and rubber rounds. They only used their rifles when they were actually being shot at. This is exactly what I mean, you use force appropriate to the threat. Rocks are a minor threat, snipers and IRA gunman are a major one. You might recall "Bloody Sunday", that was example of when the British misinterpreted a threat and applied too much force to disperse a raucous crowd, a crowd that happened to be unarmed.

This sounds like the same situation. If this kid was point a gun at the BP than the shooting would be entirely justifiable, but a rock?

Of course I was deliberately exaggerating, it was sort of obvious wasn't it? The point though was that if the situation were reversed people here would be outraged. My opinion however would be the same, guns are not appropriate response to rocks.

I was referring to this case:
http://www.masalbuquerque.com/index...xcessively&catid=65:Arizona&Itemid=32&lang=en

I am not saying the BP doesn't have a tough job, and that they don't have right to respond. But shooting a kid for *supposedly* (not proven) tossing a few rocks is a heavy handed response.

If the Mexican police are shooting at the BP than the BP has every right to shoot back. No argument. But we are talking about that, we are talking about a BP agent vs a teen who had a freakin rock. Its not exactly the same type of threat is it?
 
Last edited:
A 15 year old is hardly a child in these parts,...99% of the time a person of that age is already a drug dealing, hand gun, and street expert...especially in Juarez Mexico....And "YES" rocks are deadly weapons, ....a criminals best friend around these parts :)
 
Marsh,
Maybe we should register all of the rocks on the border?
I admire your not wavering on this issue. Still think you are a moonbat about it but...
My fear is that the BP Officer will face criminal charges. This to me is outrageous because the BP Officer was trying to do his job and some punks were interfering with him.
One thing I have not been able to discover is which side of the border was the offender shot on? Makes for some interesting legal discussions.

I always try to say thanks to EMT's, LEO's and service members I see.
Marsh, maybe you should try thinking about what the BP officers have to deal with every day. It's a jungle out there and these guys still go out every day and risk their lives. I would suggest instead of criticism you should try gratitude.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top