Originally Posted by JOC

Piloting an aircraft and being a part of an AA battery is not quite the same as tightening bolts or soldering wires. My perspective.

I disagree, if 20,000 woman replace 20,000 farm workers freeing them up to fight then then the difference is marginal and mainly a matter of semantics.

Originally Posted by MontyB

I disagree, if 20,000 woman replace 20,000 farm workers freeing them up to fight then then the difference is marginal and mainly a matter of semantics.

For the 1st time in British history ~ 600,000 women were recruited through conscription. In these organizations women performed a wide range of jobs in support of the Army, (RAF) and Royal Navy both overseas and at home. These jobs ranged from feminine roles like cook, clerk and telephonist to more masculine duties like mechanic, armorer , searchlight and anti- aircraft instrument operator. British women were not drafted into combat units, but could volunteer for combat duty in anti-aircraft units. So many of these women filled factory roles. However some performed in active service. 600,000 is not trivial, since the peak British armed forces was ~ 3.5 million at wars end at which point full mobilization had taken place, "Note: not including common wealth troops".

Originally Posted by lljadw

About the number of women in the armed forces : the figure of 500000 for Germany seems correct, but I am curious about sources for the numbers in the US and Britain .I doubt that there are any reliable sources for the number of 800000 in the SU .

The number of woman serving in support roles with the German army has been reported as 500,000 by 1944 of which 100,000 were assigned to Flak battalions by the Luftwaffe.
As far as their combat role went I recall SS Alarm Flak Abteilung Prague included female Flakwaffenhelfer who were trained on 88mm Flak guns so I imagine there were other units as well.

Originally Posted by MontyB

I disagree, if 20,000 woman replace 20,000 farm workers freeing them up to fight then then the difference is marginal and mainly a matter of semantics.

The material difference might be the same but I guess we are comparing the skill and bravery involved in the job itself. In my Mothers battery only one woman cracked up under bombing, and was treated to a good slap across the face. In general she told me it was less frightening than being under unable to fight back, even though some fighters used to target the batteries. You had to concentrate too much on other things than being blown up.

My home town was near a large Royal Ordinance factory so many of the women workers were transferred there, and had to risk bombing, although few bombers could find it being in the North west of the country and heavily camouflaged. Many of the older women I once knew worked there at some point. Incidentally one of my mothers main reasons for joining the army was to avoid working with cordite which made all the workers skin turn yellow!

Originally Posted by lljadw

These are debunked by Overy and Tooze (The Wages of Destruction)

From Overy :

% of women in the workforce


Germany :

1939:37.4

1940: 41.4

1941: 42.6

1942: 46

1943: 48

1944: 51.6

Britain (same years):

26.4

26.4

29.8

33.2

36.1

37.7


US:
1940: 25?8

1941 : 26.6

1942: 28.8

1943 :34.2

1944: 35.7


Two other points :

1) the distinction between arms industry and civilian war work is something artificial : already in 1940 more than 50 % of the German workforce was working for the WM


2)Any article using Speer as a source should be discarded: there are a lot of proofs that he was an expert in lying.


About the number of women in the armed forces : the figure of 500000 for Germany seems correct, but I am curious about sources for the numbers in the US and Britain .I doubt that there are any reliable sources for the number of 800000 in the SU .

This is partly supported here, perhaps the confusion arises to what constitutes war work. A lot of women seemed to work in agriculture.

The difference with Britain was that in Germany in 1939 25 % of the active people were working in the agriculture sector (afaics in Britain 6 %)=some 4.9 million men and 4 million women .The reason was that the German farms were smaller than those in Britain,which made mechanisation difficult and that the women were working on the farm and the men in the town(the farm was to small to give a living to the whole family).There was a solution:a compulsory merger of the small farms,but the regime was that wise not to think about it,it would cause a mass peasant rebellion,and the state never could win from the peasants .

In 1895 8.3 milion Germans were working in the agriculture,in 1939 8.9 million,the biggest part were the so-called "mithilfende familienangestellte",which were mainly women (wife,mother,daughter) who were working on the farm without receiving wages.

Before the war,the situation became critical because the young women refused to be the slave of the men:they were tied to the farm,could not marry,...They were leaving the farm for an independent living in the city and the regime was obliged to call up female school graduates to fill the holes .

Due to her territorial acquisitions Germany took over many industries in subject nations such as Škoda Works in Czechoslovakia, this expended the industrial strength of Germany.
Also the forced slave labor program implemented by the Nazi’s who kidnapped or randomly rounded people up from 12 countries to work as slave in the Reich (both inside Germany and its occupied territories). They worked primarily in factories and mines. Unless one was a skilled laborer such as an engineer or machinist the treatment of the forced laborers was deplorable with extreme hours, starvation rations and beating – shooting. Often it amounted to a slow death sentence. In 44 – 45 12 million foreign slave labors were held by the Reich.Counting deaths and turnover, about 15 million men and women were slaves at one point or another during the war.
These were several ways that German industry made up for a loss of German manpower due to high number of German males in the German armed forces.

Originally Posted by lljadw

The difference with Britain was that in Germany in 1939 25 % of the active people were working in the agriculture sector (afaics in Britain 6 %)=some 4.9 million men and 4 million women .The reason was that the German farms were smaller than those in Britain,which made mechanisation difficult and that the women were working on the farm and the men in the town(the farm was to small to give a living to the whole family).There was a solution:a compulsory merger of the small farms,but the regime was that wise not to think about it,it would cause a mass peasant rebellion,and the state never could win from the peasants .

In 1895 8.3 milion Germans were working in the agriculture,in 1939 8.9 million,the biggest part were the so-called "mithilfende familienangestellte",which were mainly women (wife,mother,daughter) who were working on the farm without receiving wages.

Before the war,the situation became critical because the young women refused to be the slave of the men:they were tied to the farm,could not marry,...They were leaving the farm for an independent living in the city and the regime was obliged to call up female school graduates to fill the holes .

Interesting to note the Germans did re-parcel out the farm land in Poland and the occupied USSR. So they could control and reap the harvest.