Effectiveness of German anti Aircraft Fire - Page 4




 
--
 
August 28th, 2014  
JOC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by perseus
There were other aircraft of course. The figure for the US looks right but the RAF dropped almost a million tons on Germany. THE US was also active in other European theater's so they ended up dropping slightly more than the RAF by the end of the war.
I was quoting the figures for just the Avro Lancaster and B-17. I forgot you are right the British had over a dozen planes used in the Bomber role in WW2 with the Arvo Lancaster being the most widely used of these.
Considering these bombs fell for the most part on population and industry centers that's a lot of damage. My father in law served in Germany during - after WW2 and said it looked like it had been bombed to the stone age.
August 29th, 2014  
George
 
Also ignores the B-24 that carried a larger weight of bombs.
August 29th, 2014  
perseus
 
 
This is interesting, especially as the B-24 was more suceptible to damage than most other mainstream bombers.

Quote:
Luftwaffe use

The B-24 was operated by the German secret operations unit KG 200, which also tested, evaluated and sometimes clandestinely operated captured enemy aircraft during World War II.
--
August 29th, 2014  
BritinAfrica
 
 
The B24 was a very effective aircraft used on RAF maritime operations with its extremely long range. A very good aeroplane.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JOC
I was quoting the figures for just the Avro Lancaster and B-17. I forgot you are right the British had over a dozen planes used in the Bomber role in WW2 with the Arvo Lancaster being the most widely used of these.
Considering these bombs fell for the most part on population and industry centers that's a lot of damage. My father in law served in Germany during - after WW2 and said it looked like it had been bombed to the stone age.
The mainstay of RAF Bomber Command operations in Europe was the Lancaster, Halifax, Vickers Wellington, while the Mosquito (along with the Lancaster) was used as pathfinders. The Mosquito was also used on other operations such as the Operation Jericho (among others). Other less effective types were used earlier on in the war and suffered a very high casualty rate.

Only 27% of RAF bomber crews survived a tour of operations.
55% killed on operations or died as result of wounds
3% injured (in varying levels of severity) on operations or active service
12% taken prisoner of war (some injured)
2% shot down and evaded capture

Wing Commander Guy Gibson VC CO of 617 Dambuster Squadron carried out something like 147 operations into Germany before being killed in action. A very brave and excellent pilot but a very arrogant man whom at times verbally abused his crew.
August 29th, 2014  
JOC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BritinAfrica
The B24 was a very effective aircraft used on RAF maritime operations with its extremely long range. A very good aeroplane.



The mainstay of RAF Bomber Command operations in Europe was the Lancaster, Halifax, Vickers Wellington, while the Mosquito (along with the Lancaster) was used as pathfinders. The Mosquito was also used on other operations such as the Operation Jericho (among others). Other less effective types were used earlier on in the war and suffered a very high casualty rate.

Only 27% of RAF bomber crews survived a tour of operations.
55% killed on operations or died as result of wounds
3% injured (in varying levels of severity) on operations or active service
12% taken prisoner of war (some injured)
2% shot down and evaded capture

Wing Commander Guy Gibson VC CO of 617 Dambuster Squadron carried out something like 147 operations into Germany before being killed in action. A very brave and excellent pilot but a very arrogant man whom at times verbally abused his crew.
If only 27 % survived (died in bomber operations), then how can only 55 % have been killed. Likely I'm missing the obvious?

Another interesting fact. Most downed allied pilot received rather good care in Luftwaffe run POW camps. However the few unlucky enough to be captured by the Gestapo were generally tortured and often executed. The Luftwaffe complained but since they were separate agencies nothing was done.
August 30th, 2014  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOC
If only 27 % survived (died in bomber operations), then how can only 55 % have been killed. Likely I'm missing the obvious?
Yes you are missing the obvious, I suspect it is a break down of total war time personnel...

27% Survived unscathed
55% KIA
12% POW
3% Injured
2% MIA (on the loose in occupied Europe or interned)
Total = 99% accounted for.

I assume the missing 1% are lost in the rounding process.

I am not sure I believe the numbers as 3% injured seems rather low but it does all add up to 100ish.
August 30th, 2014  
perseus
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BritinAfrica
The B24 was a very effective aircraft used on RAF maritime operations with its extremely long range. A very good aeroplane.
Good for maritime use but less so against aerial opposition due to the exposed tank on the top. If I had to make a choice it would be the Fortress, and even then not in daylight without fighter support!

Quote:
Popular opinion among aircrews and general staffs tended to favor the B-17's rugged qualities above all other considerations in the European Theater.[4] The placement of the B-24's fuel tanks throughout the upper fuselage and its lightweight construction, designed to increase range and optimize assembly line production, made the aircraft vulnerable to battle damage.[5] The B-24 was notorious among American aircrews for its tendency to catch fire. Its high fuselage-mounted "Davis wing" also meant it was dangerous to ditch or belly land, since the fuselage tended to break apart.[6]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consoli...B-24_Liberator

I'm just reading about the near suicidal first raid by the RAF on German ships near the coast and rivers. The Luftwaffe were slow to intervene because they dismissed the radar operators reports (shades of Pearl Harbour?). They couldn't believe anyone would be so stupid to attack in a cloudless sky! The Luftwaffe were also kept away by their own flak initially. They were also baffled why many of the aircraft didn't drop any bombs. Evidently it was because they were frightened of bombing the land! (I kid you not).
August 30th, 2014  
JOC
 
 

Topic: I read through it a bit quick, getting old


Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
Yes you are missing the obvious, I suspect it is a break down of total war time personnel...

27% Survived unscathed
55% KIA
12% POW
3% Injured
2% MIA (on the loose in occupied Europe or interned)
Total = 99% accounted for.

I assume the missing 1% are lost in the rounding process.

I am not sure I believe the numbers as 3% injured seems rather low but it does all add up to 100ish.
Got it, I missed the obvous
August 30th, 2014  
Kesse81
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by perseus
The B-24 was operated by the German secret operations unit KG 200, which also tested, evaluated and sometimes clandestinely operated captured enemy aircraft during World War II.

This is interesting, especially as the B-24 was more suceptible to damage than most other mainstream bombers.
Actually, only four was operated.

They were not used very much, as the Germans found that their nose wheel configuration was unsuitable for operations from grass runways.

And then KG 200 was not involved in the testing and evaluation of foreign aircraft.
August 30th, 2014  
George
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kesse81
.

They were not used very much, as the Germans found that their nose wheel configuration was unsuitable for operations from grass runways.

.
But apparently good enough to use salvaged ones on the JU-287 Bomber prototypes.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by perseus
They were also baffled why many of the aircraft didn't drop any bombs.
On early RAF B-17 missions the planes suffered from stuck bomb bay doors. Mechanics couldn't replicate the problem back at Base. Eventually a Boing engineer flew on a Mission and figured out what the problem was. The crews were peeing in the bomb bay and the ice was causing the problem. Bthe time the mechanics checked the plane the ice was gone.
 


Similar Topics
JF-17 Vs LCA Tejas
"Tommy's Dictionary Of The Trenches" WWI
Friendly Fire
Funny Fact
Chinese military aircraft present situation