Dutch war on Terror?

gladius

Active member
Recently the great grand nephew of Vincent VanGogh was killed for making an anti-Islamic film. He was shot and stabbed by an Islamic radical as he begged for his life on a street in Amstrerdam. The perpetrator was apprehended after a shoot out, and eight others were later arrested in connection with this.

http://apnews1.iwon.com//article/20041103/D864ICLG2.html?PG=home&SEC=news

What I want to know is, what is the concensus of the population in Holland about this? You hear the Dutch Government and alot of people making all kinds of talk about taking tougher measures against Radical Isalm, but will they really?

The thing is most of Holland is very liberal oriented, its hard to see them get tough on stuff like this. The reason I'm saying this is (if I'm not mistaken) an anti-Islamic activist was killed there years ago by radical Islamist without anybody doing much of anything.

Also will the Dutch finally take a stance and see the USA was right on the war on terror? It would be nice to get some in-country pespective since I don't live there in the land of tulips and wooden shoes.
 
A bomb went off at an Islamic school today as well In the Netherlands, nobody injured, but a clear sign that radical Islam, as I have always believed, is gradually replacing it's traditional enemies (Jews and Christians) with today’s secular European societies.
 
Were the Jews ever the enemies of secular European society? I know the Nazi's hated em? But they sure are anti-Israel, and very pro-Palestinian, maybe now they'll realize they sided with the wrong crowd?

As far as the other stuff it seems like the Dutch are getting p----d off. Any Dutch people out there can tell us more.
 
About 5 Muslim moskes or buildings are attacked too yesterday. There are over 1 million Muslims living in the Netherlands, where the population is about 15 million.
 
I have a hard time not to see more of this radical agressions amongs civilian targets in this part of Europe. The older generation amongs the fundamentalists have tried to hold the hatred towards everything that is considered as western ideology, freedom of religion, tolerance, coexistence down, but time changes. Have anyone read religion in school? What we see today is the younger generations growing dissatisfaction with this freedom of religion. For not to many years ago I heard that religious persecution of jews in France was on the menu again by Islamic fundamentalists.

Problem with Islam in general is that it can only be one world religion or you will die by the sword. Convert or die. I have a hard time to see any Islamic movement to be tolerant. I know what Muhammed did when he returned to the very same city he was banned from in first time. When he returned all other religions in that city was condemn and erased and I dont want to know what happend to those who did not accept this new world order when he returned with his army.

Any crack pipe liberal oriented I think we can love everybody political correct person will die by the sword or convert in the next 50 years. Maby the convert process is the new liberal view of the future tolerance? The new fundamentalist movement in Europe is stronger then ever and the word tolerance will be something you will find on stone boards in the Algerian desert = Pic any desert when this is over.

This is the future rather you want to except it or not. This is the price of our lac of vision. and we will all have to pay for this. Am I radical you say? Well return to me in 15-25 years and tell me that I was wrong and we will see who stands in the corner with the cone hat and the left thumb in mouth for an hour. That is if we still are alive that is. Holland has announced that there will be new laws and restrictions for the Islamic Imans. All preaching will be conducted on the Duch language in the future. Well Holland may be liberal but they are no idiots thats for sure, unfortunately I think this comes to late to be honest.

It is a good time for people to wake up and toss this utopia dream in the garbage and see the reality I think. This is if not only the beginning and you can wait and watch for yourselfe. I just take out the rubbish from the closet rather if you like it or not. Holland is a very nice country and it is a loss to see freedom and common sence in our mening being killed of one by one just because of a little group very liberal wet dream thinking people. Well what they think and loved to see is it nothing wrong with, but Im sorry to say that the world is not working like they want it to work.

Look in to the history. There is always a paus in every war. I do understand all the people that say, but we have lived as neighbours in generations? Well I say take a good look at the Balcans and learn from this history or read first chapter in Tom Clancys Red Storm Rising, I believe that the author have catched a genuine fundamentalist in action. I would love to see more tolerance in the world, but some people can just not handle that type of freedom and live with it, before it was a battle in the desert. Today it is a battle that will take place in our own gardens. I am looking forward to see Vincent VanGogh´s movie and may he find rest.

You do not run over egg shells and expect that they wont crack.

- My piece of mind

Cheers:
Doc.S

:viking:
 
i think that terror well infected Europe by now,its just the matter of time when and where will it show its face
 
Now see this is a genuine problem we have here.

A person was murdered because of his views, in the West by the Arabs. Who do they think they are? And are they really so dumb to not see that they're spitting in their own bowl?
I hope that the Dutch government takes firm and decisive action to protect it's (peaceloving) citizens, and makes an example out of these pricks.
I'd say close/burn down the mosques, after all you don't see a Christian church in the Middle East do you?
That'll teach'em and if not that, then cattle cars and a one way ticket to wherever they came from.
This is a bit rude I know but how can you compete with such hate which has the power to kill someone just because he has exposed an inferior status of women in the Arab society?

This makes me so mad, I'm a liberal at heart...but this...this is too much, we give them a good job, welfare to some, (better) education, good conditions to live in and this is how they repay us?

If I'd be president of Europe I'd say to the moderate ones that they sort the radicals out themselves or else...oneway ticket for all or worse.
*sorry, got a bit emotional*
 
Absolutely spot on Doc S.
I also think the previous generation had troubles showing some levels of intolerance because of the Nazi history. Anyone who is obviously right wing in Europe is often slandered as a Nazi.
Also people don't realize everything happened for a reason. The values we hold and traditional habits we have all started because of a reason. Over the generations we simply forget why they are there perhaps because the habit was so effective at eradicating the problem we no longer had a grasp of what the problem was, nor the scale of the problem.
Our incredible level of tolerance, openmindedness etc. were in a large part a display by our generation trying to prove we are "better" than the previous generation. However, especially now with the growing social problems in our countries in developed countries, and also with the advent of radical Islam, our new approach to life, society and culture is being severely put to the test.

The problem is not our lack of tolerance. It is their lack of tolerance. Tolerance must work both ways. If it works only one way, and the intolerant one's power is significant, what you have is merely surrender and defeat.
 
We are having a main focus on whats going on now in the Netherlands with Islam. The most multicultural society in Europe, shining example of the "European" way to tolerance, has proved uncapable of dealing with the clash of cultures. The clash between us and them is not concealable now.
 
The most multicultural society in Europe, shining example of the "European" way to tolerance, has proved uncapable of dealing with the clash of cultures.

Not sure if you mean clashes among ALL cultures, since in the Netherlands there are many many different cultures living here, most can coexist with each other without ANY problem, and quite nice to see them among each other.
 
Some cultures tend to fit in well, while others don't. It depends on the nature of the host's culture and the culture of the culture that's been planted there.
I cannot recall a single incident where Japanese or Chinese minorities overseas actually caused huge problems.
Korea has one with the LA riots.
But with some, trouble seems to be the rule, not the exception.
 
If the European nations suppress Islam (even if a little bit) due to an attack on them, it will only inflame them more. They'll get more members in whatever Islamist radical movement......
 
So Herr Hitler wasn't such a fool after all. Probably the drugs screwed him up as the war went on.

Anyhow.
so if you crack down you lose
if you do nothing you lose

interesting.
Of course there's always that no longer available option of cracking down severely. But then again that means throwing out freedom of speech, thought and expression.
 
the_13th_redneck said:
Of course there's always that no longer available option of cracking down severely. But then again that means throwing out freedom of speech, thought and expression.

There's always cattle cars for the disobedient...but that automatically qualifyies as human rights abuse, but frankly I don't give a f**k.
 
Before these theories go to far... I see a true danger here when lack of knowledge turns into something "demonize the enemy".

Islam does recognize other religions and they do tolerate them. Back in the Medieval times, when Europe was burning witches, Jews and Christians were tolerated within Islam and lived side by side. And yes, even today this is so; Cairo as an example, has plenty of Churches.

Islam has an enemy by default, and it's Pagans. A Pagan is defined as an enemy of Islam, that is: a person or people that wish to destroy Islam and their beliefs. In that case they are entitled to self-defence.

Jews weren't the enemy in the 30'ies (the hatred versus Jews wasn't isolated to Germany), and Muslims aren't the enemy today.
 
I look at it like this..... Fear can be a powerful tool and with fear as an allie you dont have to much to loose. I have seen what fear can do with people trough the history, Adolf Hitler is mentioned and with good reasons. Well he was not the perfect leader thats for sure, I am not a neo-nazi or a rasist, my half-sister is married with a african man and I got relatives in spain, italy, russia, finland, US, so I am not a perfect arier even if I got blue eyes and blond hair and have all the characteristic features that would make me a A-child in the former nazi germany.

Point is that Hitler and he´s advisors did know how to deal with the masses and gain support for the war plans and the third riech. I do belive that our different gov are doing the same and this time as always telling all people a healthy white little lie. The subject this time is tolerance and Islam and the thought that it will notl effect our way of life. I dont think but I know what this Islamist movements are aiming for, this is nothing else then a gradually infiltration of every major city and country and their weapons are not AK47s or human waves with dynamit strapped against the thorax, these are smart bombs as I see them.

They are living weapons that strive for a new takeover, no question about it, every historical and religious investigation on the subject talks one and the same language, and the message are clear to everyone that takes themselfe time too look it up. Nobelprise winner autor V.s. Naipaul`s book Beyond Belief- I recomend everyone to read that book if you still think Islam is a tolerant religion. Take a good look into that book and learn from the reality. Not from the mainstream political correct picture with Utopia minded and totaly freaked out explanations about the reality and the truth behind this truly shocking pictorial fantasy language.

I dare to speak out and tell everyone what I think from my studies of recognized authors and our history as well as religion, to those that think I am full of it to say that our different gov, are just stalling and nothing else, I say you have not paid attention in school or in class. You have listen to jambo mambo bullshit and your ears are in serious need of a cleaning. Maby a cold bath would wake you up and face the reality? I heard our own equality minister yesturday speaking of that we as a people in Europe would be a minority in the future that is 25-50 years from now. He sad I quote - we might be a minority in the future so if we treat them (muslims) good, we stand a better chance.

That is to make things clear for people, some of our leaders has allready accepted this, probably a big part of the public to but not everybody. Maby some of them that talks about this peaceful period of transition dont have to live and see it with their own eyes, what the f*** do I care. My children will live and probably I will have grandchildren too. And my daughter will not wear a Burka or clothing of the Middle Ages so she can go and shoop without getting stoned to death on a football stadium if caught by the local fashion police. I strongly advice everyone that has a library to run down and borrow the book Beyond Belief by author V.s. Naipaul, and get the picture and the reality before demonizing everyone that speaks out about this silent takeover as I see it.

That book is the reality in a box and if you have a hard time to read it, I do understand you because you dont get the prize if you slender about this type of things. Holland will have problems in the future as every other European nation. What do people need to understand this? Another bomb in a trainstation? Another building to blow up? A bomb in the local café or another dead critic Journalist, Author, Director? As fast as a gov doing anything against these types of critism you got an answer. The answer is bloody and If you like it so be it, but I dont recall that type of defence as defence but surrender of democratic solutions and capitulate to domestic enemys without taking the democratic counter messures that is needed to face this type of enemy I call and recognize as high treason.

I dont say that civilian people should take the law in their own hands to defend our freedom loving society. I say our leaders have to react before it is to late or we will wake up in the morning to the loud sound of speakers from the Islam praying towers and your women have to see the world trough a eye aperture and live behind the electric stove with 7 children to guide to the local Koran school every morning, where your children wont get anything of what you, I , and our relatives have built up intellectual and with knowledge.

You can forget everything that you may have today right know if you accept this silent period of transition, or you can speak up and tell your leaders to do something to protect the freedom and our way of life. The choice is yours and as some say in sweden - When the goal glorifies the means of getting there you can act tollerant and very civilised in our western eyes as long as the goals are forfilled. Wake up people.

The open explanations and the "truth" served by our different weak gov`s today I personaly dont give a bottle of horse piss for. They who say that critism against Islam in generall are theories or figments of the imagination or dangerous accusations are rigth in one way or another when the accusations against this religion and culture built up around this religion are based on unfounded accusations. However when this amniotic fluid cracks around this bubble I really really hope that people are ready to face their judges. It is judgement day today in 50 years from now ladies and gentlemen, even if you want to or not want to accept the hard truth.

But that is how it is and nothing is going to stop that because there are no armies in the world that can defeat whole nations and peoples indifferent towards this problem and that is a fact, even if I maby have to wait 25-50 years to see the new world I hope that I am still here when it happens though. I would not like to miss it for anything in this world. A good roar of laughter extends life someone told me. If it is Holland that will be hit first I wait and see. It will spread as Marksmen say, Some cultures tend to fit in well, while others don't as the_13th_redneck say and as Italian Guy says "European" way to tolerance, has proved uncapable of dealing with the clash of cultures, that is also a very good and true observation and rOk has seen the genuine problem without getting to emotional. There is more authors on this forum that have good points of views even amongs the critics to everything offensive so I recall all this as hope for another maby 10-15 years of freedom and way of life as we are used to I think 8)

Cheers:
Doc.S

:viking:
 
The most multicultural society in Europe, shining example of the "European" way to tolerance, has proved uncapable of dealing with the clash of cultures.

Wow, that is scary stuff. :shock:

I'd rather be living directly in a Mosque, although those things are noisy as hell, than have neighbours with this kind of... let me formulate it politically correct and call it "interpretation of facts".

There is an incident related to an Islamist and one thought away it gets bloated to proof of a cultural war.

In honour of this I'm going to eat out at the Egyptian restaurant around the corner tonight. A hot Syrian chick works there. It's possibly going to get messy. Please do me the favour and do not liberate me, even if I scream... :lol:
 
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