Dutch pull out of Afghanistan

perseus

perseus

Active member
Shame the rest of the coalition didn't have a similar plan for nation-building. I wonder how long before it becomes an Islamic state again?

NATO had wanted the Netherlands to extend its mission, but the request triggered a political row which brought down the country's coalition government in February.This sent shock waves through other European countries, particularly Germany, where public opposition to the war is growing......

Analysts say the Dutch contingent has pioneered techniques which have since been held up as a model for other foreign forces in Afghanistan.
These include the "3D" policy - defence, diplomacy and development - which involved fighting the Taliban while at the same time building close contacts with local tribal elders and setting up development programmes.
"We offer the majority of the population relatively safe living conditions and advancements in health care, education and trade," Gen Van Uhm told a news conference on Wednesday.
"We have achieved tangible results of which the Netherlands can be proud."
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-10829837
 
I'm sorry perseus but Australia has been doing the exact same thing in country as the Dutch have been. I also believe Britain has at some levels done similar.
Not sure on the yanks but I assume they would as well.
The Dutch have set a good example that other NATO countries should get off the fence and contribute as well.
 
Not sure on the yanks but I assume they would as well.
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Not sure what you mean here, are we referring to nation building? Remember Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld's rather disdainful "We don't do nation-building" remark as Iraq was falling apart in the wake of the 2003 U.S. invasion.

Perhaps things improved later, but they got rid of this guy didn't they?

Lt. Gen. William Caldwell, who spearheaded the writing of the manual, spoke this week about the need for U.S. military action that betters "the human condition." .... It's striking language for a career soldier.
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http://politics.usnews.com/news/nat...ofter-side-with-focus-on-nation-building.html
 
The US has spent billions on infrastructure projects.

USAID began building roads, schools, and clinics began in 2002 to demonstrate immediate progress to the Afghan people. While these programs continue, USAID is shifting its focus to improve energy and power. The building and refurbishing of infrastructure boosts economic growth and agricultural yields, connects rural Afghans to services, and provides schools, clinics, and courthouses for its citizens.

FY02-07 Infrastructure spending by USAID. 2,117M USD.
FY08: 527M USD
FY09: 282M USD
Total FY02-09: 2,926M USD
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http://afghanistan.usaid.gov/en/Program.25.aspx

perseus, just go ahead and admit that you hate Bush and you hate America. That will make things a lot easier.

COIN is a difficult mission. We are trying to help the Afghans better themselves and their country.
 
HokieMSG said:
perseus, just go ahead and admit that you hate Bush and you hate America. That will make things a lot easier.
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I hated Bush, his regime and everything he stood for Satisfied?

Hate America? Well the founding Fathers attempted to create a secular state,

http://www.earlyamerica.com/review/summer97/secular.html

and some of best corporate laws I have ever seen

http://www.reclaimdemocracy.org/corporate_accountability/history_corporations_us.html

These are noble aims, and should have created a culture second to none. What happened?
 
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HokieMSG said:
The US has spent billions on infrastructure projects.
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How much of this has gone into filling the pockets of US Corporates rather than rebuilding Afghanistan?

http://www.rawa.org/temp/runews/2009/12/18/contracting-in-afghanistan.html

Contractors in Afghanistan are making big money for bad work

A highway that begins crumbling before it is finished. A school with a collapsed roof. A clinic with faulty plumbing. A farmers’ cooperative that farmers can’t use. Afghan police and military that, after training, are incapable of providing the most basic security. And contractors walking away with millions of dollars in aid money for the work. The Bush Administration touts the reconstruction effort in Afghanistan as a success story.
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‘In a free fire zone, you can shoot anybody you want. In a free fraud zone, you can steal anything you like’. And that was what they did. - Allan Grayson, a Florida-based Attorney
 
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Big money for bad work is actually pretty consistent with how things are in America right now.
It's ****ing tragic. :(
 
perseus said:
I hated Bush, his regime and everything he stood for Satisfied?

Hate America? Well the founding Fathers attempted to create a secular state,

http://www.earlyamerica.com/review/summer97/secular.html

and some of best corporate laws I have ever seen

http://www.reclaimdemocracy.org/corporate_accountability/history_corporations_us.html

These are noble aims, and should have created a culture second to none. What happened?
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Perhaps it is the American paradox: to be hated and loved at the same time. How can they be as open, friendly and generous as individual citizens and yet the U.S. government so arrogant and dominant in foreign policy? Is it that the American government's primary problem that they can’t see there is a problem and that they have forgotten what it was that the country should stand for? Just a thought!
 
perseus said:
I hated Bush, his regime and everything he stood for Satisfied?

Hate America? Well the founding Fathers attempted to create a secular state,

http://www.earlyamerica.com/review/summer97/secular.html

and some of best corporate laws I have ever seen

http://www.reclaimdemocracy.org/corporate_accountability/history_corporations_us.html

These are noble aims, and should have created a culture second to none. What happened?
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Yes. Thank you.

As far as what happened. Who knows. It seems to me that America has developed a ruling class that does what it thinks is best for the ruling class and to hell with the rest of us. I am curious to see the results of the carnage that is likely to happen in november. Many incumbents (Republican and Democrat) have fallen. This is a good thing.

perseus said:
How much of this has gone into filling the pockets of US Corporates rather than rebuilding Afghanistan?
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It is interesting that you bring this up. In Iraq, the U.S. military was forbidden from buying materials or repair parts directly from America. All projects were required to use local IN (Iraqi National) companies and the materials had to be purchased locally. I do not know if it is the same in Afghanistan, but generally the poor workmanship that we saw was due to the the Iraqi's doing shoddy work. Had one building that we held the final payment to the contractor for nearly a year because they couldn't pass the final inspection.

In another case we had to sell a D5 bulldozer for scrap because the cost of purchasing a repair part locally was 5 times the cost of buying and shipping the part from the U.S.

So who's profiting again?
 
A Can of Man said:
Very interesting HokieMSG. That's something we don't hear over here.
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Don't I know it. The attitude from the Iraqi's I was advising was interesting. While the US was giving them whatever they wanted, they couldn't have been happier that we were there. Once we stopped, the first question was "When are you guys leaving?"
 
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