Drug use in the USA

[FutureDevilDog]

Well than maybe show me some proof what you were saying than I wouldn't call you uneducated. And unless you have a degree in psychopharmocology or any other neurological science I wont retract my statement.

 

[Tweek]

Regarding my last paragraph, Tweek; I base it on the experience of living and working close with long term drug users (heroin, amphetamines, weed and alchohol), their statements and personal stories of how their life changed in one or two years since they were introduced to drugs.

Feel free to overrule it, but I will never change my opinion.

Nor will I. No offence; but some stoners actually complain about their habbits to strait-edges to make conversation; this is no lie. I've seen it done on many occasions. People like to feel accepted; and; I'm sorry to say; but a lot of people are chameleons so to speak; as in they change how they act towards certain people.

Well than maybe show me some proof what you were saying than I wouldn't call you uneducated. And unless you have a degree in psychopharmocology or any other neurological science I wont retract my statement.

This is very true. It doesn't matter if he majored in history; or english; or whatever; it has to be certain majors and certain courses that meet the word educated in this debate. Just because someone may have a phd in medicine; does not mean he knows anything about world history.

I may have no papers to proove it; but I am very well educated in the field of street drugs. This might sound like an oxymoron; but there is a lot more to drugs than getting high.

Anyways; this is getting rhetorical and going nowhere. Noone is going to change their opinions; so this isn't a debate; it'sa squabble against two sides.

www.freevibe.com . I would like to know some opinions on this site. In mine; I feel that this is a very biased site with false facts. Thoughts?

Marijuana isn't evil; it doesn't hurt anybody; if people want to smoke it let them smoke it. One person or government should not have control over what someone smokes; or ingests; right?

 

[AussieNick]

The link between regular cannabis use and later depression and schizophrenia has been significantly strengthened by three new studies.

Pharmacological effect

Patton's team followed over 1600 Australian school pupils aged 14 to 15 for seven years. Daily cannabis use was associated with a five-fold increased risk of depression at the age of 20. Weekly use was linked to a two-fold increase. The regular users were no more likely to have suffered from depression or anxiety at the start of the study.
The reason for the link is unclear. Social consequences of frequent cannabis use include educational failure and unemployment, which could increase the risk of depression. "However, because the risk seems confined largely to daily users, the question about a direct pharmacological effect remains," says Patton.
In separate research, a team led by Stanley Zammit at the University of Cardiff, UK, evaluated data on over 50,000 men who had been Swedish military conscripts in 1969 and1970. This group represents 97 per cent of men aged 18 to 20 in the population at that time.
The new analysis revealed a dose-dependant relationship between the frequency of cannabis use and schizophrenia. This held true in men with no psychotic symptoms before they started using cannabis, suggesting they were not self-medicating.

Quoted from the new scientist publication
http://adserver.adtech.de/?adiframe|2.0|289|122925|1|401|target=nsad;

http://www.military-quotes.com/forum/What type of psychoses are associated with cannabis use?


It is believed that cannabis use may cause a condition known as a drug-induced psychosis or cannabis psychosis which:

• Can last up to a few days
• Is often characterised by hallucinations, delusions, memory loss and confusion
• Usually results from prolonged or heavy cannabis use

and
​

• Responds well to treatment

However, in some cases, cannabis use may contribute to the development of a psychosis such as schizophrenia which:

• Constitutes a serious mental illness for the majority of people with the disorder
• Is characterised by hallucinations, delusions, social withdrawal, paranoia, self-neglect, thought withdrawal, and speech disorders like associative or incoherent speech

and
​

• Tends to respond less well to treatment than cannabis psychosis

Most of the research in this area has investigated cannabis in people with schizophrenia.

Quoted from The State Government of Victoria health services website.
http://www.health.vic.gov.au/drugservices/pubs/cannabis.htm

Clearly I've quoted 2 reliable sources there.... So don't try and be a smart arse.

I'm going to call this situation like I see it. All I'm seeing is some kid whose started smoking weed, thinks he's cool, but feels he needs to justify it to himself so here he is. What terribly funny response have you got to that?

 

[FutureDevilDog]

Most of the research in this area has investigated cannabis in people with schizophrenia.

Well of course people with mental disorders are prone to have psychosis when under the influence of psychoactives.

Surveys have also indicated that people who admit to using cannabis report more psychotic symptoms. One study found that in the general population, using cannabis doubled the likelihood of reporting one or more psychotic experiences in a 12-month period.The risk of developing psychosis is believed to be increased by:

• The use of stronger forms of cannabis(for example, hashish, skunk)
• Prolonged cannabis use
• The use of greater amounts of cannabis
• A personal history of psychotic illness

and/or

​

• A family history of psychotic illness

Thats from your source. Basiclly it says, if you abuse it or have a history of mental illness it can cause psychosis. It doesnt say anything about proper use or people who are mentally stable.



I didnt come here to justify my drug use with you people. I dont care. I started this thread to show that marijuana should be legalized. Only idiots do stuff to make them look cool. I smoke because I like it, end of story. But again, the whole reason of this thread was to show that marijuana is way less dangerous than alcohol and tobacco and various other drugs. That is all.

 

[AussieNick]

This is very true. It doesn't matter if he majored in history; or english; or whatever; it has to be certain majors and certain courses that meet the word educated in this debate. Just because someone may have a phd in medicine; does not mean he knows anything about world history.

I may have no papers to proove it; but I am very well educated in the field of street drugs. This might sound like an oxymoron; but there is a lot more to drugs than getting high.

My point was that it is odd for a 15 year old drug user who hasn't finished high school to call a university graduate "uneducated".

And as for the officer comment. Those of you out there who don't know this, an officer has more duties than just military ones. In the Australian army. One of those roles we are trained in (by Psych officers) is drug counselling. We have to understand the nature of addiction, the issues involved, and the remedial measures that are possible.

 

[AussieNick]

Thats from your source. Basiclly it says, if you abuse it or have a history of mental illness it can cause psychosis. It doesnt say anything about proper use or people who are mentally stable.

So I'm to assume you use it properly. Right on.
You say you won't get addicted. But then in your words you smoke it because you "like it".

Sounds like I used to with cigarettes. I liked them.... you know what that was? An addiction. I'll bet a lot of heroin addicts like the heroin.

You can pick apart the sources, but they are credible sources. I don't think it needs to be explained much more, but I'll play along if you like.
Remember this though, your credibility is now shot to bits... because you're a drug user.

 

[FutureDevilDog]

So I'm to assume you use it properly. Right on.
You say you won't get addicted. But then in your words you smoke it because you "like it".

Ya I like it. I dont depend on it psychologicly or physicaly

Sounds like I used to with cigarettes. I liked them.... you know what that was? An addiction. I'll bet a lot of heroin addicts like the heroin.

Marijuana is no where near as addicting as Heroin or Nicotine.

You can pick apart the sources, but they are credible sources. I don't think it needs to be explained much more, but I'll play along if you like.

I'm not picking apart the sources. They're correct. If you have mental disorders you will have problems when using marijuana.

Remember this though, your credibility is now shot to bits... because you're a drug user.

I laugh at that statement. I dont see how that makes me any less credible than you.

 

[Donkey]

Marijuana can be addictive, can affect physical health, and can affect mental health. It's a fact. You need to get your facts straight and get your information from a trusted source.

http://www.nida.nih.gov/ResearchReports/Marijuana/default.html

Sorry was just reading this.... Since when is the goverment a TRUSTED source....Ever hear of propaganda

Yeah I would def not call a goverment website creditable source...They would be extremely biased....I mean they dont have any alternative motives or anything...

 

[AussieNick]

Sorry was just reading this.... Since when is the goverment a TRUSTED source....Ever hear of propaganda

A far better source than those who support drug use.

I laugh at that statement. I dont see how that makes me any less credible than you.

A 15 year old drug user has less credibility than a Royal Military College graduate thankyou.

Maybe I should use a scenario that the soldiers here can understand. I would not fight alongside you. If you use drugs, however much or little, you are no longer reliable as a soldier. End of story.

Ever noticed how the word of a drug user is always questioned by the authorities.... maybe there is a good reason for that... it is unreliable.

 

[FutureDevilDog]

Sure you have more credibility than me, maybe, but that doesnt mean I have zero.

 

[AussieNick]

Sure you have more credibility than me, maybe, but that doesnt mean I have zero.

Thank you. Point made.

The fact of it is I have seen peoples careers ruined because of drug use in the Army, I have seen the families of those diggers destroyed.
I have seen the brother of a friend of mine end up in a mental institution after 12 years of marijuana use with paranoid delusions and multiple personality disorder.
I have had my cousin die of a heroin overdose after being a user like yourself. She was just trying it to see what it was like.

So I've seen my fair share of the damage it can do.

 

[Donkey]

A far better source than those who support drug use.

Exact opposet ends of the spectrum...I more creditable source would eb a nutral one...Seriously a goverment source is going to be extremely biased and filled with propaganda...

However I would agree that kids should not be encouraged to use such (or any substance) until they are older, more developed, and responsible... Much like drinking and what have you...

I'm also not advocating the abuse of any substance or anything for that matter, since gambling, computer, internet, television, and other adictions can be just as harmful to your body and life...

Here is some information on IAD or Internet Addiction Disorder
http://library.albany.edu/briggs/addiction.html

 

[sunb!]

Nor will I. No offence; but some stoners actually complain about their habbits to strait-edges to make conversation; this is no lie. I've seen it done on many occasions. People like to feel accepted; and; I'm sorry to say; but a lot of people are chameleons so to speak; as in they change how they act towards certain people.

Yes I agree with you, chameleons seen on many occations at the rehab centre I worked but in the end they showed their true face and person - in a period of two to four years... Some people have to play roles to fit in, others don't.

 

[Ted]

There must be a bible quote saying;"leve and let live". Smoke it in the confines of your home; fine. Smoke it an cause troubles, accidents or damage to property; you pay the price!
If I'd like to smoke some pot and game a little and probably fall asleep on my couch, what is wrong with that? And if I cause harm well I'll have to pay.... simple as that!

'Nuff said (wow who'd ever guessed I'd be using 5.56's words???)

 

[Tweek]

Maybe I should use a scenario that the soldiers here can understand. I would not fight alongside you. If you use drugs, however much or little, you are no longer reliable as a soldier. End of story.

Back in the day Hitler used to pump his soldiers' viens full of methamphetamine to make them better/cheaper/longer lasting soldiers. With Methamphetamine; you don't eat which cuts the cost of eating; better because it can cause the adrenaline to jump tenfold; making a soldier a savage beast on the battlefield; and longer lasting because they don't need sleep. No matter how many Nazi haters are out there; you cannot disagree that their army was bloodthirsty and no less than amazing.

If someone is on the battlefield beside you shooting up some meth; you should praise him for being the savage fighter he is and fighting for the same cause as you; not shun him because he's a drug user.

Sadly; the same cannot be said for marijuana. This tends to make people lazy; and should not be used in the battlefield. Look what happened at nam. Either way; it depends on the scenario. Off the battlefield it is fine to use IMO.

Thank you. Point made.

The fact of it is I have seen peoples careers ruined because of drug use in the Army, I have seen the families of those diggers destroyed.

This is because in our government(s) and military(ies); drugs are shunned. I'm sure many gays' lives were ruined too. If drugs weren't shunned; there wouldn't be a problem would it? Of course; not all drugs should be used on the battlefield; but in the privacy of the soldiers' homes; it should be fine.

 

[therise21]

it really depends on the user. i have a few friends who are basically burnouts, they sit around and do nothing all day but get high. i also have a few friends who smoke weed and have high paying proffesional jobs. the fact that it can lead to psychosis later in life is debateable. do your studies tell you of the subjects family history with regards to mental illness, or other factors that may increase the risk of it? weed is basically a harmless recreational drug if used responsibly. of course it can have negative effects if used in an irresponsible way(driving on it, etc), but many things can.

 

[AussieNick]

If someone is on the battlefield beside you shooting up some meth; you should praise him for being the savage fighter he is and fighting for the same cause as you; not shun him because he's a drug user.

You're obviously not a soldier are you. You're just a :cens: wit.


As for the government sources issue. I took information from the department of health information for health workers resource. I don't know about your country, but here the government tends to provide the CORRECT information to health workers... not propaganda.

This is because in our government(s) and military(ies); drugs are shunned. I'm sure many gays' lives were ruined too. If drugs weren't shunned; there wouldn't be a problem would it?

No I'm not talking about that wise guy. I'm talking about the impact drug use has on family.

 

[Donkey]

So how about those Canadians in Afghanistan that where killed by a US pilot who was using government issued "go pills"....

You are very naive if you think a prescription drug being given to you buy a doctor or mandated by your government employer isn’t bad for you....In fact most prescription drugs are derivatives of illegal drugs....Go figure....

If you want proof how many painkillers are of the opiate base????

I’m not advocating the abuse or use of any substance whether it is legal or not I'm simply stating your arguments are baseless and if we where to use your logic then well basically all humans should sit in one place not breathe not do anything and listen to whatever big brother tells them to do...Like they dont have any alternative motives....

Im talking about the impact of goverment brainwashing, to much television watching, prolonged computer use, and the durnk driver that just killed a family.... Yet those are all legal things being abused... go ****in figure....

-edit
Here have some sources
US Pilots on go pills
http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/2003/030103-speed01.htm
Google search for the above
Google Results

Opiate based painkillers (legal perscribed and used)
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/heroin/opifaq2.htm

An interesting little flow chart thing I found
http://www.csdp.org/publicservice/addicttowar.htm

It is also funny when you do research on the military and drugs you will find that the goverment sites say the exact opposite of the non-goverment sites....Again go figure....

Finally Aussie Nick I'm not trying to dis you bilittle you or even change your view, I'm just saying their is far more to this all then you think and to be honest "weed", "herb", "pot", "grass" whatever you want to call it is the least of our problems...

 

[Missileer]

So how about those Canadians in Afghanistan that where killed by a US pilot who was using government issued "go pills"....

"In accordance with set policy Major (Umbach) and Major (Schmidt) were ground tested and both were without side effects and were medically cleared for operational use of 'go pills.' "
The U.S. inquiry board agreed.
"The prescribing physician felt that both pilots tolerated the go/no-go pills and managed their crew rest well prior to the incident," the board stated. Poor judgment -- not drug impairment -- warranting manslaughter charges led to Schmidt dropping his bomb, the two boards concluded.

You are very naive if you think a prescription drug being given to you buy a doctor or mandated by your government employer isn’t bad for you....In fact most prescription drugs are derivatives of illegal drugs....Go figure....

Drugs given in a prescription are labeled as to the side effects they can cause. If you take them as prescribed, all is A-OK. Drugs given to pilots are not mandated, they are taken voluntarily and only after the medical officer has approved of the drug and dosage.

I’m not advocating the abuse or use of any substance whether it is legal or not I'm simply stating your arguments are baseless and if we where to use your logic then well basically all humans should sit in one place not breathe not do anything and listen to whatever big brother tells them to do...Like they dont have any alternative motives....

I'm not being a wisenik, but I don't understand your logic of this statement.

Im talking about the impact of goverment brainwashing, to much television watching, prolonged computer use, and the durnk driver that just killed a family.... Yet those are all legal things being abused... go ****in figure....

I'm not sure how Government brainwashing got into the conversation but I don't worry about Government disinformation as much as I do about so-called news sources (reporting). As far as legal drugs and merchandise being abused, such as cell phones, drunk driving, over the counter sleeping pills, etc, there are laws that govern those as well. If a drunk driver kills someone, there's a prison sentence. I recently underwent a sleep apnia test and once diagnosed, could not drive until I received treatment. That is a State law.

It is also funny when you do research on the military and drugs you will find that the goverment sites say the exact opposite of the non-goverment sites....Again go figure....

What kind of research are you referring to? As far as I could tell when I served, the Army Medical Corps were the same as I experienced as a civilian when I was discharged.

Finally Aussie Nick I'm not trying to dis you bilittle you or even change your view, I'm just saying their is far more to this all then you think and to be honest "weed", "herb", "pot", "grass" whatever you want to call it is the least of our problems...

It may not be the same problem as crack but whatever name you put on it, it's still dope and is still illegal. In most jobs that I've held, if you ever peed dirty, security would come and take you to the nearest exit. No prisoners were taken, even your Supervisor didn't know you were gone.

 

[GI_JOEJK]

By working in the entertainment industry, I have seen it all. One of the things I have noticed, is when an artist starts to use marijuana, he looses his creative initiative. These artists are the most apathetic bunch I have ever seen. They will talk big but do nothing, except smoke more weed. Is it no wonder that people who smoke weed are considered "losers"?

If you want to retain that motivational drive and ambition, DO NOT use marijuana. It may not harm you physically, but it will alter you mentally.