drop the Bomb...

To all the people who are about to jump up at down about me not being there please note this does not remove the fact that I believe the A-Bombing was justified it is purely hypothetical thinking about another possible aspect of the campaign with 60 years of hindsight.

Well i guess that's part of what this thread is all about, the other solution would be to go back in time which we can't (yet) ^^
 
Ah i almost forgot- theres a good and entertaining book that comments on what we can/ should make of "historical" movies (in this case focusing on Rome):
Marcus Junkelmann- Hollywoods Traum von Rom (Hollywoods dream of Rome)
There is also a translated version

Marcus Junkelmann: Hollywoods dream of Rome - "„Gladiator "“and the tradition of the monumental film. 1. Edition. Philipp of Zabern, Mainz 2004, ISBN 3-8053-2905-9
 
There was never going to be a negotiated peace, all the allied leaders were adamant that the Axis countries should be made to surrender unconditionally. What was worrying the Allies that unless the Axis countries where truly beaten that we might have re run of the war in other twenty years. Any peace treaty made with Axis could have been just round two and when they had rearmed and reequipped they just might try again. It was by imposing peace on Japan and changing their life style by force that helped change Japan for all times
 
There was never going to be a negotiated peace, all the allied leaders were adamant that the Axis countries should be made to surrender unconditionally. What was worrying the Allies that unless the Axis countries where truly beaten that we might have re run of the war in other twenty years. Any peace treaty made with Axis could have been just round two and when they had rearmed and reequipped they just might try again. It was by imposing peace on Japan and changing their life style by force that helped change Japan for all times

It's interesting to note that a declaration of an unconditional surrender certainly made the Germans fight even harder, particularly in the Rhineland. This cost many more lives on both sides.
 
I remember after the end of WW2, how everybody was so happy that there would never be another war, because of the atom bomb. Now it seems we will never have peace as long as they exist.
 
errol..............There had to be an unconditional surrender, as the Germans thought that they were not defeated after WW1, so we had rerun off it. Did you think that the Allies would go down that path again.
 
Well, like Le, I was here at that time and I back him 100%.

I, who lived in Lodon at that time, amongst masses of soldiers who were familiar with the way Japan had waged WW11, can confirm that in England the news was probably the most welcome and applauded moment of the conflict. The Japanese forces at that time were feared and hated here, and whilst we were not aware of the power unleashed until later, everybody had been getting bombed devastatingly throughout the duration. It was looked upon as payback and retribution by those who had the misfortune to face the Japanese war machine.

The news was greeted with great cheers and a special Victory over Japan celebration with monutain high bonfires and dancing in the streets.

The word for what happened is War, and only retrospect brings aany reconsideration.

Did it shorten the war? Of course. There is suggestion that some Japanese isolated Japanese have not yet agreed to surrender!

Was the example a deterrent? What do you think? Did it remove the prevailing taste for conflict? What do you think?

This is of course the opinion of someone who had experienced years of involvement and threat, but who has long since put all that to one side, not least because of the nature of the defeat imposed by such a bomb.
 
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errol..............There had to be an unconditional surrender, as the Germans thought that they were not defeated after WW1, so we had rerun off it. Did you think that the Allies would go down that path again.

The thing is that despite the claims of an unconditional Japanese surrender it wasn't entirely unconditional as Japan pretty much got what it was asking for in the July offer and that was immunity for the Emperor and the right to disarm their own military.

The only variations on the late 1944 peace offerings were that the wanted no occupation or war crimes trials and to retain their island possessions at the out break of the war the war in the Pacific could have been finished before the the war in Europe and several high ranking American officials obviously knew it and were keen for it to happen for example:

On May 28, 1945, Hoover visited President Truman and suggested a way to end the Pacific war quickly: "I am convinced that if you, as President, will make a shortwave broadcast to the people of Japan - tell them they can have their Emperor if they surrender, that it will not mean unconditional surrender except for the militarists - you'll get a peace in Japan - you'll have both wars over."
Richard Norton Smith, An Uncommon Man: The Triumph of Herbert Hoover, pg. 347.
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Norman Cousins was a consultant to General MacArthur during the American occupation of Japan. Cousins writes of his conversations with MacArthur, "MacArthur's views about the decision to drop the atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were starkly different from what the general public supposed." He continues, "When I asked General MacArthur about the decision to drop the bomb, I was surprised to learn he had not even been consulted. What, I asked, would his advice have been? He replied that he saw no military justification for the dropping of the bomb. The war might have ended weeks earlier, he said, if the United States had agreed, as it later did anyway, to the retention of the institution of the emperor."
Norman Cousins, The Pathology of Power, pg. 65, 70-71.



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This is why I have said this needs to be looked at from two points of view:


1) Political:
Was a diplomatic solution possible and I it is clear that the answer to that is yes which means dropping the bombs was unnecessary had politicians done all that was in their power to end the war sooner.


2) Military:
If an invasion was going to be necessary then would the casualty rate have been high enough to justify dropping the bombs and the answer to that is clearly yes the dropping was justified.

 
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The thing with the germans and surrender is that they had this fear of Versailles, the reason that braught the whole mess... the punishment after ww1 was just way too hard and that wasn't even an unjust war because every nation wanted/ needed / provoked a war at that time... thats what most of modern Historians say/ support.
 
No doubt the MacArthur did not want the bomb dropped as it ended his campaign and for him to a greater mark in history than he did in the finish.

The Germans at Versaille, well what did they expect, they started the war hoping for a quick victory that never came they devastated whole countries. Now there were countries like Franc that had been badly hurt with all the fighting on territory and recompense, okay they went over the top, but not if you were French.

Now the Allies could have carried on flying bombing raids all over the Japan pouring down Napalm killing more people than the atom bomb. Still what about the Allied prisoners held by the Japanese what do you think would happen to them. A British plane crashed in Japan after peace had been declared, he was beheaded as terror flyer. Where they right to drop the bomb YES they were.
 
That is how we felt, I have to say. Retrospect is a fine tool. There comes a time when you throw the blow that ends the fight.
 
A few years back I read an article about a Chinese-American woman detailing the experiences and indignities her great aunt suffered at the hands of the Japanese in Nanking. In December of 1937 the Japanese went on an orgy of rape, murder, looting, destruction and even cannabalism. Well over a quarter of a millian people died at the hands of soldier's of the rising sun. This woman who was a 15 year old girl at the time was repeatedly raped over a period of two days by so many soldier's she lost count. She prayed for death and thought her wish would be answered when an officer pulled his nambu from its holster and shot her twice. The first bullet tore a piece of her left ear off the second struck her in the neck. She miraculously survived and when her great niece asked her if the Japanese would have surrendered without the atomic bomb being used, she answered immedietly. I don't know and I don't care. I think they should have dropped a hundred more on Japan. This is a third party story and how much of it is true, I do not know. But the Japanese behavior at Nanking was truly outrages and shameful. I think they should have dropped the bomb if not to end the war quickly, then to save maybe a million men in a conventional assault.
 
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