Originally Posted by senojekips

And I suppose you know of another way in which Right and wrong is established? Of course it is determined by the majority and your inference that there is some other way of determining it is patently absurd. This is another of those points for which there is no Source for either the question or the answer. But that fact has little bearing who is right and who is wrong. So to disprove my answer, please tell me about another common method (other than majority rule ) by which society arrives at what is right and what is wrong.

This is nothing like the Civil Rights debate as coloureds are not (as a group) mentally flawed. All been said before.

But of course you would, maybe Pixie will enlighten us herself. Never the less it was a good example of your habit of deliberately trying to put words into the mouths of others. I feel that if that is what she meant, that is what she would have said.

for someone who has argued and denied the points of others for thirty some odd pages, I find it odd that now I am asking for direct answers you should suddenly start going on about this debate being of little consequence.

I'm just tired of it. I'm tired of repeating myself like a broken record. It's not getting through to you, whether it's my fault or your own... But it really doesn't matter. You're not going to convince me of anything, and I'm not going to convince you of anything. We learned this the LAST time we argued over homosexuality. It was foolish of both of us to open our mouths again, knowing full well that this would happen again.


My problem with majority ruling over right and wrong is that sometimes things come along that defy the majority, but turn out to be a good thing. I'm not using the Civil Rights Movement because they're black... I'm using the Civil Rights Movement because they were a small minority who SHOULD have been treated like normal human beings, but weren't, simply because of a small issue (the color of their skin). They defied the majority, and became a normal part of society. The same thing WILL happen with homosexuals. There is no reason to treat them any differently because of their sexual preference. They WILL become a normal part of society. It's already happening, it'll just take some time before it becomes widely accepted.


By the way, you still have yet to answer my point about mentally retarded people. They're mentally flawed, and yet you show them no disdain whatsoever. Why?

Originally Posted by Rob Henderson

My problem with majority ruling over right and wrong is that sometimes things come along that defy the majority, but turn out to be a good thing. I'm not using the Civil Rights Movement because they're black...

Exactly,.. They are not mentally flawed,.... the point I have been making all along, nor do they as a group behave in a manner that is antisocial and repugnant to the majority. Blacks were being discriminated against for a trait that does not affect their interaction with mainstream society.

By the way, you still have yet to answer my point about mentally retarded people. They're mentally flawed, and yet you show them no disdain whatsoever. Why?

Because retarded persons are not attempting to overthrow democratic process and have laws passed that would prevent sane persons from recognising them as mentally flawed and therefore needing to be treated differently.

Originally Posted by senojekips

Exactly,.. They are not mentally flawed,.... the point I have been making all along, nor do they as a group behave in a manner that is antisocial and repugnant to the majority. Blacks were being discriminated against for a trait that does not affect their interaction with mainstream society.

And gays are being discriminated against for a trait that SHOULDN'T affect their interaction with mainstream society. What's it matter who they sleep with? It's none of your damned business, quite frankly.

Originally Posted by senojekips

Because retarded persons are not attempting to overthrow democratic process and have laws passed that would prevent sane persons from recognising them as mentally flawed and therefore needing to be treated differently.

They don't LIKE being treated differently though. They don't ENJOY that special treatment, and would love lead as close to a normal life as possible. The only thing that SHOULD prevent homosexuals from leading a completely normal life is the fact that they cannot have children. That's it.

Originally Posted by Rob Henderson

They don't LIKE being treated differently though. They don't ENJOY that special treatment, and would love lead as close to a normal life as possible. The only thing that SHOULD prevent homosexuals from leading a completely normal life is the fact that they cannot have children. That's it.

That and the fact they are not normal.

Are you only interested in "normal" treatment for homosexuals?
What about Lesbians?
Are you including bisexuals?
What about transvestites?

Does the simple fact that the primary purpose of sex, reproduction, escape you?
Gay's have chosen a life with out the difficulties of dealing with the opposite gender.

A lot of Gays do not act "normal", so why treat them as if they are normal?

They are demanding change, they are demanding they be treated equally I have not been shown one reason to accept their demands.

You can roll around on the ground and kick your feet yelling, "I want, I want, I want, wah! wah! wah!" all you want, but that is not a reason to accept Gays as normal.

Originally Posted by Rob Henderson

And gays are being discriminated against for a trait that SHOULDN'T affect their interaction with mainstream society. What's it matter who they sleep with? It's none of your damned business, quite frankly.

"Shouldn't",.... an interesting choice of word, and I believe that you selected that word either consciously or otherwise in preference to "Doesn't". The fact is that it does affect their interaction with those about them because amongst other things, normal persons are reviled by their antisocial behaviour and abnormal sexual preferences.

They don't LIKE being treated differently though. They don't ENJOY that special treatment, and would love lead as close to a normal life as possible. The only thing that SHOULD prevent homosexuals from leading a completely normal life is the fact that they cannot have children. That's it.

Not many of us get everything that we like. I don't like many things, but those that are imposed upon me for the betterment of society as a whole, must be accepted. I don't enjoy paying taxes, but I do it and I do it willingly.

I don't necessarily like being one of the many "little people" who has little or no control over how my life is run, but that unfortunately is the way it is, and it is such with being a homo. When you are different, you must expect treatment in accordance with that difference. If you behave in a manner that is repugnant to the majority, you must expect to be treated as a social pariah.

Originally Posted by Chukpike

That and the fact they are not normal.

Are you only interested in "normal" treatment for homosexuals?
What about Lesbians?

You did NOT just say that... LMFAO. You DO realize that lesbians are ALSO homosexuals (as in, the scientific name for a human who is sexually attracted to the same sex)?

I'm sorry Chukpike, but you've lost basically all credibility in this argument if you don't even know what's covered under the word.

Originally Posted by Chukpike

Does the simple fact that the primary purpose of sex, reproduction, escape you?
Gay's have chosen a life with out the difficulties of dealing with the opposite gender.

Please show me a source where it has been scientifically proven that gays are NOT born that way. Where they have "chosen" their life in all cases.

Originally Posted by Chukpike

A lot of Gays do not act "normal", so why treat them as if they are normal?

They are demanding change, they are demanding they be treated equally I have not been shown one reason to accept their demands.

You can roll around on the ground and kick your feet yelling, "I want, I want, I want, wah! wah! wah!" all you want, but that is not a reason to accept Gays as normal.

How about the simple fact that we are all human, and we, as other humans, should be caring and compassionate, instead of hateful and resentful? Not good enough for you?

Originally Posted by senojekips

"Shouldn't",.... an interesting choice of word, and I believe that you selected that word either consciously or otherwise in preference to "Doesn't". The fact is that it does affect their interaction with those about them because amongst other things, normal persons are reviled by their antisocial behaviour and abnormal sexual preferences.

I'm not blind to the world, Spike... I'm a liberal thinker who lives in Ala-freaking-bama. Trust me, I see how the other side sees it. And the simple fact of the matter is that there will always be those who are too stubborn to change, and they get left behind. They will always be looking backwards instead of looking to the future. But that's slightly off the topic. I used the word "shouldn't" because I DO realize that gays are treated differently. I oppose it, but I don't deny it.

You say "normal" persons are "reviled" by their behavior... I am a normal person, who sees absolutely nothing "reviling" about them. I also know SEVERAL other people who are "normal" and yet do not find their lifestyle "reviling." So that statement, too, is incorrect. SOME people are reviled by their behavior. Just because YOU are reviled by their behavior doesn't make THAT the norm. Once again, anything that doesn't find it's place in Spike's favor must be "abnormal."

Originally Posted by senojekips

Not many of us get everything that we like. I don't like many things, but those that are imposed upon me for the betterment of society as a whole, must be accepted. I don't enjoy paying taxes, but I do it and I do it willingly.

So you admit that even though you don't enjoy something, you still comply with it... Well, I don't enjoy having **** sex, but I don't mind other people having it. It's not something that affects me directly in a negative way, so why should it bother me? Who am I to say what two people do in the privacy of their homes?

Originally Posted by Rob Henderson

You say "normal" persons are "reviled" by their behavior... I am a normal person, who sees absolutely nothing "reviling" about them. I also know SEVERAL other people who are "normal" and yet do not find their lifestyle "reviling." So that statement, too, is incorrect. SOME people are reviled by their behavior. Just because YOU are reviled by their behavior doesn't make THAT the norm. Once again, anything that doesn't find it's place in Spike's favor must be "abnormal."

Look Rob, I'm getting a bit sick and tired of your personal attacks, every time the argument goes against you and you have no legitimate answer, or you don't hear what you want. Stick to the argument. Remember, I'm the one who has the backing of the majority, if anyone is out of step here it's you.

You said it yourself, you see nothing reviling about them. Well, you've made a poor choice in life, so, get used to the fact that your choice is not seen as normal.

So you admit that even though you don't enjoy something, you still comply with it... Well, I don't enjoy having **** sex, but I don't mind other people having it.

Having **** sex is not an obligation of civilised society,.... yet....

It's not something that affects me directly in a negative way, so why should it bother me? Who am I to say what two people do in the privacy of their homes?

Do you want me to start listing some of the things you can't do in the privacy of your own home?

Why do you keep posing the same questions that have been answered here before. (Often many times) If you want new answers, you've got to ask new questions, and I take it that you have none.

Originally Posted by Chukpike

That and the fact they are not normal.

Are you only interested in "normal" treatment for homosexuals?
What about Lesbians?
Are you including bisexuals?
What about transvestites?

Originally Posted by Rob Henderson

You did NOT just say that... LMFAO. You DO realize that lesbians are ALSO homosexuals (as in, the scientific name for a human who is sexually attracted to the same sex)?

So typically Rob. When cornered completely change the subject, do not answer the question, modify the question to eliminate any problems your arguments might present.

Everyone is aware you removed bisexuals and transvestites from the question, that you were not going to answer anyway.

Originally Posted by Chukpike

Does the simple fact that the primary purpose of sex, reproduction, escape you?
Gay's have chosen a life with out the difficulties of dealing with the opposite gender.

A lot of Gays do not act "normal", so why treat them as if they are normal?

They are demanding change, they are demanding they be treated equally I have not been shown one reason to accept their demands.

You can roll around on the ground and kick your feet yelling, "I want, I want, I want, wah! wah! wah!" all you want, but that is not a reason to accept Gays as normal.

Originally Posted by Rob Henderson

Please show me a source where it has been scientifically proven that gays are NOT born that way. Where they have "chosen" their life in all cases.
How about the simple fact that we are all human, and we, as other humans, should be caring and compassionate, instead of hateful and resentful? Not good enough for you?

I do not need to supply a source for something you claim is a "normal condition" for the GLBT crowd. You need to prove they have no choice.


You talk about not being judge mental.
But you elude to me being hateful and resentful. Which means you choose to ignore the fact that I have said repeatedly that I don't care at all about the GLBT crowd. I only draw the line when they demand I recognize them. I could care less if the repeal Don't Ask, Don't Tell. And I have said that from the beginning, you judge everyone either Liberally enlightened or a bigot, no middle ground.

Originally Posted by senojekips

This sentence is a perfect example of you putting words in peoples mouths. Had she have "understood your point ", she would not have made the statement in the first place.

Oh, I understood his point quite clearly. I just find it asinine to compare treatment of gays to how we treat mentally retarded people in this discussion. As Rob's comment said, "mentally retarded people are neurologically flawed, and yet you do not hate them," therefore agreeing (to show a point that backfired) that gays are neurologically flawed which means they should not be let into the military at all!



I'm all for gays in the military. **** whoever they want etc, I just don't think a pamphlet and parading who they have in bed is right. It doesn't need to be talked about. End of story. This isn't "cool" and this isn't the "norm" and it should not be viewed as the "norm." I am not saying they should be disrespected, but in my opinion much of this gay fad going on now is a plea for attention and special rights.

p.s. Rob, in the long run this is going to effect every "normal" person in a negative way in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Chukpike

Gay's have chosen a life with out the difficulties of dealing with the opposite gender.

You know, you may have just found the answer.
I can't say this applies to all gay dudes, but the ones I kinda knew said they actually would have sex with a female if they had an opportunity to do so.
Just about every straight guy I know wouldn't have sex with another guy regardless of opportunity.
Food for thought.