Don't Ask, Don't Tell Policy - Page 13




 
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Don't Ask, Don't Tell Policy
 
October 16th, 2009  
mmarsh
 
 
Don't Ask, Don't Tell Policy
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTop
Colin Powell? You are kidding right? I have been personally present with Gen. Powell when he was asked if he'd support a change in the "ask, don't tell policy". His answer to the smart ass college english professor was simply "No!".
My point of contention with what you keep saying is very simple. You cannot imagine what it's like in combat unless you've been in the situation yourself. I don't think any of the people you may have spoken with would disagree.
Well, thats the beauty of being a Civilian, you are entitled to speak your opinion without fear of penalty from the military or political establishment. Its probably no coincidence that Colin Powell made that comment on July 5 2009 when he was out of the military and out of politics.

Again, I agree that one cannot understand combat without experiancing it -we agree on that. That is why I am not basing my opinion merely on MY experiance, but on the comments of those who HAVE experianced it...such as Colin Powell.

I have yet to see a valid comment about why Gays shouldnt serve based on a reason on a gay's inability to do the job. The entire question seems rooted in a general dislike of homosexuality in general. Like Chief Bones said, this is 1948 all over again. The question is about gays in general, not gays in the military. In fact you could even use the same facts (on a lesser scale) as 1948, that the seperation of gays is a needless waste of military resources that accomplishes nothing because gays have no negative impact. Most other modern militaries have already ended the practice of discriminating gays...and the US will too, only a matter of time.
October 16th, 2009  
Lavite
 
 
Interesting comments about General Powell's position on homosexuals in the military. All I could find that was recent was from a January 2009 article at CNN:

The chairman of the joint chiefs of staff at the time, retired Gen. Colin Powell, also believes it is time to reevaluate the policy -- although he has not said he favors its reversal.

"It's been 15 years and attitudes have changed," Powell told CNN in December. "And, so, I think it is time for the Congress, since it is their law, to have a full review of it. And I'm quite sure that's what President-elect Obama will want to do."

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/01/...gays.military/

And I agree with mmarsh. I've yet to see anyone post a logical reason why homosexuals are a detriment to the military's ability to do its mission.

The best anyone has done is Seno with some vague "moral" reason. That must come as a shock to Lutherans, Episcopalians and Unitarians who have openly homosexual clergy.
October 16th, 2009  
Rob Henderson
 
 
Especially coming from an atheist.
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Don't Ask, Don't Tell Policy
October 16th, 2009  
DTop
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmarsh
Well, thats the beauty of being a Civilian, you are entitled to speak your opinion without fear of penalty from the military or political establishment. Its probably no coincidence that Colin Powell made that comment on July 5 2009 when he was out of the military and out of politics.

Again, I agree that one cannot understand combat without experiancing it -we agree on that. That is why I am not basing my opinion merely on MY experiance, but on the comments of those who HAVE experianced it...such as Colin Powell.

I have yet to see a valid comment about why Gays shouldnt serve based on a reason on a gay's inability to do the job. The entire question seems rooted in a general dislike of homosexuality in general. Like Chief Bones said, this is 1948 all over again. The question is about gays in general, not gays in the military. In fact you could even use the same facts (on a lesser scale) as 1948, that the seperation of gays is a needless waste of military resources that accomplishes nothing because gays have no negative impact. Most other modern militaries have already ended the practice of discriminating gays...and the US will too, only a matter of time.
I agree with what 03USMC said. This is not the time to subject the military to this sort of issue while fighting two wars.
Gays are not prevented from serving now so there is no question about whether they should serve because they are serving. This has nothing to do with the segregation that existed 50 or 60 years ago either.
October 16th, 2009  
Lavite
 
 
"This has nothing to do with the segregation that existed 50 or 60 years ago either."

Maybe not directly, however integration of the blacks was accomplished during a rather nasty war in Korea without any real difficulty. So it's a reasonable example.

And implementing a change to allow a rather insignificant number of homosexuals in the military to serve openly wouldn't require much of any change in normal operations.
October 16th, 2009  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Henderson
Especially coming from an atheist.
How so young Rob?

I'll guarantee I have higher moral standards than the majority of Theists. For a start,I take complete responsibility for all of my own faults and foibles. Nor do I respect books that promote hatred, murder of women and children and even intolerance of homosexuals,... like "The Bobble". Leviticus: 18:12
(You know that I can quote dozens of other passages, to support my argument so don't ask).
October 17th, 2009  
03USMC
 
 
Ya know all this universal equality , it's not appeasement, it's the right thing to do stuff ,I'm sure has a nice ring and gives people warm fuzzy bunny feelings that they have good cause and they stand for down trodden Whatever.

Fact remains there more pressing concerns for the military right now. A'stan is circling the drain and we can't get a solid answer, exit plan for Iraq.........anybody? Deployment tempo is crazy. Yet this is an issue thats pressing? Come on.

Do we really want troops sitting in sensativity classes when they could be learning and honing skills that could save their lives in not places.

This is an assinine issue at this point. Eventually it will happen but this is not the time to press the issue.
October 17th, 2009  
Rob Henderson
 
 
Spike. Calm down. I was just joking... See, I'm accepting of atheists, even though I'm not one... Funny how that works, ain't it? I don't think you're any less of a person, nor do I believe I'm any better than you for your difference between us. I know it's a hard concept, but I assure you, it's the truth.

03... I'm not so much pressing the issue as I am just stating my opinion on it... I completely agree that the military has MANY more important matters to deal with right now... But I do believe that it should happen.
October 17th, 2009  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Henderson
Spike. Calm down. I was just joking... See, I'm accepting of atheists, even though I'm not one... Funny how that works, ain't it? I don't think you're any less of a person, nor do I believe I'm any better than you for your difference between us. I know it's a hard concept, but I assure you, it's the truth.

03... I'm not so much pressing the issue as I am just stating my opinion on it... I completely agree that the military has MANY more important matters to deal with right now... But I do believe that it should happen.
Well,... you can believe me also. I am very calm,... and also very determined that I will speak against this PC stupidity wherever I see it.

Being "better" is not the issue here, although we can't rule it out as we are all better at some things than others. I have no doubt that there are things that make you better than I in some areas, and also vice versa.

What annoys me is that we hear all of this whinging and whining that our countries moral standards are going down the gurgler, but when a chance comes along to rectify it, people fall back on stupidity based on "political correctness" to make sure it never happens.

In short they are either brain washed, or they don't have the intestinal fortitude to stand on their own two feet and speak out against it.

This will be another of those issues that will come back to bite us on the bum in times to come.
October 17th, 2009  
Rob Henderson
 
 
Has it ever even occurred to you that some people just think differently than others? Come on, Spike... You know me at least semi-well. You've seen me post here before... Do I sound like the kind of guy who gets brain-washed or someone who wouldn't speak his mind?

I'm not brain-washed, I'm not a pansy... I just feel like I'm not the person to tell two people what they can and cannot do... As long as it's not harming me or anyone else, why not just leave them to their own devices?


When a person passes judgement on another person... That person is claiming to be "better" than the person being judged... At least in certain regards... You say people who support homosexuality have no moral fortitude... I can assure you, I have plenty. I believe in right and wrong... The issue lies with the fact that homosexuality is neither right nor wrong... It just IS.
 


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