Domestic Spying without a Court Order by the FBI - Page 2




View Poll Results :Do you approve of Domestic Spying without a Court Order?
Yes 8 28.57%
No 18 64.29%
Not Sure 2 7.14%
Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll

 
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Boots
 
November 7th, 2005  
Ramjet
 
Quote:
I have nothing to hide but it makes me wicked uncomfortable knowing people are being held without being charged and without knowing the evidence against them...argh.
I agree with you, bulldogg.

If someone is proven to have links to illegal activities, then I have no problem with authorities tracking them. I do have a problem with the "guilty until proved innocent" philosophy the US government has seemingly adopted.

Quote:
first the source of such news is another media outlet belonging to left wingers.
Ah, so if I understand phoenix80s POV - anything that is critical of the US government must be from evil anti-American left-wingers. Gasp! Shock! Horror! The government must always be working for the good of the people!
November 7th, 2005  
phoenix80
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldogg
Phoenix, how the would I know except from what I have read? Then you tell me I am wrong but just as you have done here you add NOTHING to the conversation. Tell us some stories, give us some examples. You say you lived there, tell us about it from first hand accounts mate.
why are you offensive?!

okay I tell you more!

in Iran you can't criticise the leadership or ministers and high ranking people. No freedom of speech and assembly!

In my homeland, Iran, you are always guilty unless proven otherwise.

Leaders are very corrupt and dont care about the welfare of their own people.

You might end up in jail for being with your opposite sex partner (if you aren't married).

You end up in jail if you talk against the founder of the islamic regime or try to promote western values. in 1999 and 2003 thousands of students were arrested for speaking up against the mullahs and rioting against the regime.

I was just wondering how you can say that the US is becoming a police state when you have no clue about how a police state like Iran/Cuba/Syria or China is.

Btw, you have lived in China for couple of yrs and you should know how they treat their opposition forces.

Ramjet:
Quote:
Ah, so if I understand phoenix80s POV - anything that is critical of the US government must be from evil anti-American left-wingers. Gasp! Shock! Horror! The government must always be working for the good of the people!
No, I am in favor of open and free media and I wish the same thing could exist in Iran too.

But in the recent years the media attack whatever the US government (read Bush) does and it is unfair.

So I'd rather not believe such BS from left wing media which do nothing to help.
November 7th, 2005  
bulldogg
 
 
Ok, granted I have been out of CONUS three years but is the Washington Post now a den of left-wing ideology??

Phoenix, sorry if that post seemed offensive, it is actually the voice of exasperation. Can you relate any first hand accounts?
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Boots
November 7th, 2005  
phoenix80
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldogg
Ok, granted I have been out of CONUS three years but is the Washington Post now a den of left-wing ideology??

Phoenix, sorry if that post seemed offensive, it is actually the voice of exasperation. Can you relate any first hand accounts?
Wash Post has always been the bastion of left wingers.

What first hand accounts would you like to hear?
November 7th, 2005  
bulldogg
 
 
Anything. Paint the picture with some personal stories.
November 7th, 2005  
phoenix80
 
 
sorry it can put my family who still lives in iran in a great risk!

but to give you a bit of the taste of how life is restricted for youth in Iran.... I can say that I was arrested 2 times for walking with my girl friend in a park in central tehran and the mullah gave me a suspended sentence on that. (i was damn lucky though)

or during June 2003 protests, 4000 students arrested in 7 days for speaking up against the regime and asking for more freedom.

Btw, I'd suggest you keep reading this blog

http://regimechangeiran.blogspot.com
November 8th, 2005  
bulldogg
 
 
See that's what I am talking about, thanks, this makes it a little more real than just some general statements that anyone reading a blog could muster up. Thanks Phoenix.

Its nothing like that here in China. People in their day to day life rarely ever come into contact with the boundaries set upon them by the central government in a tangible way. They control the information you have access to and they limit the ways you can protest but they are allowed to protest. There are a couple of hot buttons that will get you ganked but as long as you steer clear of them its negligible as far as how much they affect their citizens.

Is it unreasonable to fear that this step of spying on citizens will lead to a government with ever increasing unchecked power and ever decreasing rights of the citizens?

BTW that blog is blocked in mainland China so I can't read it.
November 8th, 2005  
phoenix80
 
 
Quote:
BTW that blog is blocked in mainland China so I can't read it.
WoW!

I wonder why!?
November 8th, 2005  
bulldogg
 
 
Allies mate. China and Iran are very tight bedfellows. They are very careful to behave towards allies as they would want them to do to/for them. IE they block sites critical or deemed subversive to Iran as they would expect Iran to do regarding sites critical or subversive to China. Like I said they control information here more than directly controlling the citizens lives as done in North Korea and apparently Iran.
November 8th, 2005  
phoenix80
 
 
Thanks for the explanation...

Can you try this?

http://regimechangeiran.com

Let me know if it works!