Does democratic china produce Hitler? - Page 5




 
--
Boots
 
April 16th, 2006  
yingying
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldogg
Ying, I hope we can grab a beer some day and discuss your fear of bears.
Your last point is very germaine (valid) to the discussion.
there is no problem for me to drink beer with u,if you are living in china now,we can achieve this easier.
in fact i only can drink two bottles of beer.
not good at drinking...
April 16th, 2006  
bulldogg
 
 
Let me know if you are down south sometime and we'll see if we can increase your tolerance.
April 18th, 2006  
yingying
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldogg
Let me know if you are down south sometime and we'll see if we can increase your tolerance.
Do you mean that you are living in the south part of China?South China is far from me ,and the south China is so large a area.Can you tell me in detail?Guangdong?Zhejiang?Shanghai?Fujian?
Of cause I can increase my tolerance,cause when the time you meet a friend you will be very happy that you can enjoy more.
--
Boots
April 18th, 2006  
Ollie Garchy
 
 
In Response To yingying's long post:

TOPIC: CRITICISM IS NOT RACISM

1. "china is not suitable for democracy":

The Chinese state might not have a democratic tradition, but I never wrote that the Chinese people cannot change the system over the longer term. Democracy, according to the Anglo-Saxon tradition, cannot be acquired in a matter of days. It takes years and years.

2. "We also did not experienced a so called "Enlightenment". do you think it is our fault that we are not the same as you and your culture?":

European capitalism developed hand in hand with a wide range of political philosophies. Personally, I think that it dangerous for a state to industrialize according to western patterns and not think about the societal turmoil that ripped Europe apart and led to serious domestic and regional instability. Democracy (even as limited as it is in the western states) has proven at least moderately successful in giving the people a small voice. I want this voice. I want to hear your voice.

3. "Or ,are you claiming that we are barbarines?????you should care about the rulls of thie forum. You should know that racial words are not allowed here.":

I never called the Chinese people "barbarians". This is your word. I am simply pointing out to the dangers of industrialization without a sane appreciation of the costs by the elite.

4. "And the racist are not welcomed here.yeah we did not experienced a so called “Enlightenment”,but we are still living ok. It is not our fault that we did not experienced that."

Why is criticism (even hard criticism) racist? Am I not allowed to have an opinion that differs significantly from yours. PLURALISM is DEMOCRACY! pluralism is not racist. Nor is it illegal. It is what makes democracy work.

5. "You said that china is frightening.i have no comments of this.because it is only your subjective judgement.":

The Chinese government frightens me. This viewpoint is not derived from racism or any subjective extrapolations. The current pattern of Chinese development indicates a revolution in international economic realities and in international relations. Revolution is by nature a frightening business. The future is uncertain. Show me how a fundamental shift in global affairs will benefit my life instead of degrading my future. If Chinese development will actually help me, hey, I will embrace it.

6. "in fact these words of yours are denigrating the repution of china.and you are making a crime yourself by your slander.":

Criticism, once again, is an important part of democratic society. I live in such a society. It is not a "Bad habit"...it defines who we are.

7. "You mentioned the wars of us with vietnem and india,but you should know that we are not the only country doing wars. In fact usa do wars more often then us, so why do you neglected them? Why do you critisise the usa government? Do you obverse the world with a coloured glass and with prejudice?".

The United States has not waged a war of territorial expansion for around 100 years. Why should I criticize the United States? The American empire protects me from foreign aggression. The United States offers me peace and prosperity. The American empire only expects minor obedience...I am even permitted to criticize it. Look at the work of Chomsky and others. These dissidents run free and continue the constructive traditions of all critics. The United States military is Germany's line of defence...they are a shield that protects us. Anyway, Why would I want to challenge the noble traditions of American liberty? The modern US, for all of their faults, represents the most "enlightened" empire the world has ever seen. I want the US to dominate the planet...it does, anyway, whether I like it or not.

8. "You said that we annexed the Tibet country . please give out your proof of Tibet is a country in the older days."

Rhetoric and, quite frankly, a viewpoint that only deepens my insecurity concerning the future.

9. "As the matters of Taiwan ,it is mere the unite of the whole country."

The question is: Will the international community accept an attempt by China to seize Taiwan?

10. "You said that china I think both usa and eu are still threatening china. Do you know that it is a fact ? do you think you are a justice man while you said this word? What you are really concerning is the interest of yours ,but you do not want to pursue you interest frankly, you just want to pursue your interest with several coats"

The theft by Chinese companies of European and American patents is so pronounced that western countries have complained time and time again. The Chinese "use" of foreign technology (like simply copying machine-tools without any recognition of rights) constitutes a crime. Do you think that such a policy demonstrates Chinese good will? This type of behaviour is not as "normal" as you suggest. That fact that you call this behaviour "normal" is frightening in itself.

Conclusion: Your accusation that I am a racist is an attempt to gloss over my very real criticisms of current Chinese developments. These criticisms were written using a provocative voice characteristic of western traditions. Criticism is not racism. PLURALISM IS A NOBLE THING...A VIRTUE.
April 19th, 2006  
bulldogg
 
 
A fine exlanation Ollie, well done.
April 19th, 2006  
yingying
 
Since it takes years to work in democratic ,so you should know that we need time to change. Please do not criticisize china much since we have not endured a long time.

Glad that you have concern the turmoil in china. But you should know that we should do something step by step. We can not do things in a instant orelse we will the same as russia. Industrilized country is not the pattent of the westen countries but the pattens of all the human being. In fact only the people in west did it earlier than others. In the future days all the people will be living in a industrilized country.

I just made my conclusion from your words. You did say that:
Quote:
The Chinese culture did not experience the "Enlightenment" and has no understanding of western traditions or experiences
.It seem that I was wrong ,and I made a mistake.

You can not regard slander are the same as criticisize. There is difference between them . You made a crime by your slander while you did not give out the evidence.

As to the tibet subject I said you were rhetoric but you said I was rhetoric. It is really fuuny. In fact I do not think you have enough evidence to prove tibet had none realishionship with old china and in the old days tibet was once a country.

As to taiwan subject,I will not care about others. What are they ? what do they means ? I regared them as bug. We must unify our country is eternally right. We are the same . We must be work in a whole . Others have no rights to be involved in this matter. If they do want to be involved in this affair ,let it be. If I can be the chairman of our country I may regard others in this affair as the feature of the bird. It means that I regard them as air. In this field we need not argue ,need not negotiate,need not talk ,but just accept the truth that :chian and taiwan are the same and we must unify ourselves in the future without regarding the fellings of others.

As to the usa section. I am very glad you can realize that usa is the freedom defender of the world and the peace defender of the world. Galad that you are intelligent enough to realize this . Also I am very glad we are also living in such a nice earth. In fact I am try my best to post your words in a germany forum. And I want to know whether your compatirote are the same as you ,if you are really from germany. Can I make this conclusion that:all the things usa have done are right and all the things china have done is wrong? Is china a evil country in your eyes?

You did not reject my point one by one . You only selected some of them. I do not know why you shirk from them. May be that you do not have your couragement to face the reality. In fact I am not content with you random rejection. I would rather you reject them one by one.

Glad that the two passages of yours are not the same . In your first passage there are full of provocative and inclement words and slander words;and in the latter passages it seems that you have behavier in a decent way. I am very glad you have made this progress.

You should not regard criticism are the same as slander. You should not take domocracy as your shield for criticising the affairs of others . Do not work as a women . Do not alwanys care about others.

The reason why you have this thinking:
A--------In the past years china made great progress,envy may come easy in your country.
B--------The government of your country want to change the focus of your home affairs such as the bad economic situaition and the high rate of unemployment. They want to avoid the turmoil in your own country,so they always exaggerate the reality. China have always been sacrificed by the politicians in your culture.
C--------you do not know that we are living in a chnaging world. People in your culture always do not have enough couragement to face the reality bravely and they always indulging themselves in the old-golden days. They do not know that we are living in a changing world. The old egypt live nice;france was invincible when there was napoleon;usa is the greast power in the now world. You should know that we are living in a changing world ,we should face the world in the view of forward.

Once again you can not think criticism and slander are the same . what will you think if others always slander your country?
April 19th, 2006  
bulldogg
 
 
I think you are blurring lines of intent Ying.
April 19th, 2006  
yingying
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldogg
I think you are blurring lines of intent Ying.
I do know that mistake do not come in a single way. Both the two opposites parts involved in this matter are all wrong in a sense.
Unfortunatelly you are wrong, I did not stain the internet but others do not like the voice different from them.
In fact democracy do not means uniform ,I think.But means diversity.
April 19th, 2006  
bulldogg
 
 
It does but in point of fact you are not accepting diversity in views upon China but rather insisting on others conforming to your view.
April 19th, 2006  
yingying
 
May be you are right while you are claiming these words.But I think it will be better for both of us to re-think of the words:
We are always claiming the democracy,and we are all want others are the same as us. We are all self -centered man

I have consider a lot of miself,did you re-consider youself again?
If it is really a advice, we aill accept it with the thankness.


mistake do not come in a single way ,both of the two opposite parts are all wrong in a sense.