Does democratic china produce Hitler?
Ollie Garchy
Active member
CABAL said:
Response:
(1) China is "not suitable for democracy": Of course it is not. It is an empire that spans countless languages and cultures. It is an empire without any democratic traditions whatsoever. The Chinese culture did not experience the "Enlightenment" and has no understanding of western traditions or experiences. What we do know of China is frightening. We know that the Chinese government only shows contempt for North America and Europe. The policymakers exhibit a TOTAL lack of concern for international law and steal patents, etc.
(2) China is not Nazi-Germany. I agree. It is far far worse. Not only is China's murder record far higher than that of Hitler, with all the attributes of genocide and ethnic cleansing, but that state is currently aggressive whereas Hitler's regime no longer exists. The current Chinese government has provoked wars with Vietnam or India, has annexed countries like Tibet, rattles the sabre and threatens Taiwan with invasion, constantly threatens the United States and European countries, is engaged in a systematic attack on global trade patterns, and is DESTROYING the planet with a primitive industrialization program that makes Manchester Capitalism look environmentally friendly.
(3) Nazism was an "evil cult". Well, I suggest that you read a little more about communism. Another "evil cult"....except that the Chinese variant offers the world an exciting future. Here are some of the wonderful things that the current Chinese government offers the world:
a) A massive environmental breakdown and an energy crisis over the shortterm
b) Economic breakdown by undercutting competition through what amounts to the brutal application of slavery
c) The threat of world war as China grasps for more control of global energy reserves and expands and develops its military
Chinese "success" is built on domestic slavery, environmental insanity, and an immature and evil political system that offers nothing but the party line and ultimately tears. Sounds a lot more like Hitler than most people would like to believe.
Ollie Garchy
Active member
CABAL said:
A one-party system is by definition a dictatorship. What would be an example of a one-party system that is not a dictatorship? How about an absolutist monarch or maybe even a warlord? Come on. Even good ole' "el presidente" who holds elections and receives 99% of the popular vote (the election results are normally published prior to the election) is rather obviously considered a dictator.
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If the party itself was somehow democratic, why not. If it allowed anyone to participate in the decision making, candidate for comissions and posts, etc. That wouldnt be dictatorship, it just misses the point of parties/parliamentary democracy. Doesn't make sense when theres only one of them. But I dont know any example for that... maybe the soviet union in its early days?
BTW @mmarsh: Do you study history? Or are you just so frighteningly well-educated that you recognized Franz von Papen in that cartoon? :thumb:
BTW @mmarsh: Do you study history? Or are you just so frighteningly well-educated that you recognized Franz von Papen in that cartoon? :thumb:
Bory
Active member
I do not see a Hitler Figure emerging in China. He achieved power in circumstances, that just don't exist in China.
He used the;
Fear of the Communists,
Hatred of the Jews,
Hatred Of the Allies (Treaty of Versailies),
Hatred of the Government (Stab in the Back Theory, End of Passive Ressitance in the Rhur Crisis etc),
the Instability of all the Weimar Governments (Each one from 1918, to 1932 was a Coalition)
And of course, he used the Constituion against itself by passing an Enabling Act through the parliment after the Reichstag fire, that allowed him in 1933 to merge the office of Chancellor and President together after Hindenburgs Death and then he enacted Article 48 of the Constituion, that allowed the President to Suspend the Constitution.
It was a whole serise of events and situations that allowed Hitler to take power. However someone like Hitler who joins the Communist Party then rises to Power, well that is a possibility. However the authority Hitler wielded would need to come from a change in the current regime, which will not happen terribly easily.
He used the;
Fear of the Communists,
Hatred of the Jews,
Hatred Of the Allies (Treaty of Versailies),
Hatred of the Government (Stab in the Back Theory, End of Passive Ressitance in the Rhur Crisis etc),
the Instability of all the Weimar Governments (Each one from 1918, to 1932 was a Coalition)
And of course, he used the Constituion against itself by passing an Enabling Act through the parliment after the Reichstag fire, that allowed him in 1933 to merge the office of Chancellor and President together after Hindenburgs Death and then he enacted Article 48 of the Constituion, that allowed the President to Suspend the Constitution.
It was a whole serise of events and situations that allowed Hitler to take power. However someone like Hitler who joins the Communist Party then rises to Power, well that is a possibility. However the authority Hitler wielded would need to come from a change in the current regime, which will not happen terribly easily.
bulldogg
Milforum's Bouncer
Fear of foreigners (gwei lao),
Hatred of the Japanese,
Hatred Of the Japanese,
Hatred of the Japanese,
Hatred of Capitalists (Opium Wars, Boxer Rebellion, various other real and perceived slights to the ego of China),
the Instability of all the Nationalist Governments and Dynastic Governments.
Hatred of the Japanese,
Hatred Of the Japanese,
Hatred of the Japanese,
Hatred of Capitalists (Opium Wars, Boxer Rebellion, various other real and perceived slights to the ego of China),
the Instability of all the Nationalist Governments and Dynastic Governments.
bulldogg said:
wrong, most of that list are history, as for the japanese, they keep rubbing salt on the old wound by visiting yakashrine where the criminals were being honored. and keep denying what has happened during ww2. what if the nazi are still in power and hitler were being honored and worshiped, what those victim, especially the jewish people are going to think about that.
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Ollie Garchy said:
You are s0n of b1tch, you talk just like hitler who 's going to blame chinese for everything with nothing to back you up. just like they did to jewish people before ww2 and use that as excuse for your ethnical cleasing. every people has its own personality just like every culture has its uniqueness, what make you think every thing should act in conformity, you just resemble that hitler who seek its gene purity by purging all different ethinity, how could they left you out when they execute nazi.
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bulldogg
Milforum's Bouncer
You are comparing apples and oranges. Achinese its dangerous for you to talk about the conditions and social issues inside the USA if you have never been there in person. I and some others talk about places we have lived or are living.
I could easily refute your criticism of the USA and its treatment of blacks by taking your statements and substituting Tibetan for Black and China for USA. Its better to approach this intellectually rather than emotionally.
And before I go I just wanted to say goodbye in case I dont get a chance later.
I could easily refute your criticism of the USA and its treatment of blacks by taking your statements and substituting Tibetan for Black and China for USA. Its better to approach this intellectually rather than emotionally.
And before I go I just wanted to say goodbye in case I dont get a chance later.
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that's just like someone are trying to stab you to death while you were asleep. by some chance, you survived and severely wounded, are you goign to let him slip away without properly apolizgized and compensated. is this what you have in your mind.bulldogg said:
what i am saying is that democracy is not feasible and total equality is just some paper work. harmony and better life would be a more reasonable approach for chinese.bulldogg said:You are comparing apples and oranges. Achinese its dangerous for you to talk about the conditions and social issues inside the USA if you have never been there in person. I and some others talk about places we have lived or are living.
I could easily refute your criticism of the USA and its treatment of blacks by taking your statements and substituting Tibetan for Black and China for USA. Its better to approach this intellectually rather than emotionally.
And before I go I just wanted to say goodbye in case I dont get a chance later.
bulldogg
Milforum's Bouncer
Move on.
We did it with Japan after WWII.
We did it with China after the Korean War.
All of Europe did it with Germany and Italy.
Do you deny that the central government is using this issue to distract the common people from domestic problems and the growing unrest within China?
We did it with Japan after WWII.
We did it with China after the Korean War.
All of Europe did it with Germany and Italy.
Do you deny that the central government is using this issue to distract the common people from domestic problems and the growing unrest within China?
bulldogg said:
yeah I know ,nazi and musolini and its follower have been properly executed while those in japan, they are still in power and those dead criminal were still being honored, that's what i mean rubbing salt on the would by visiting shrine, how would it feel if you were jewish when the nazi are still in power and being worshipped.
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obviously, it's not chinese government's intention to use anti jap sentiment to gets people's attention away from domestic problem. because mass protest is going to to affect the stablility which is now the priority of the gov. you should have known it ealier why the police were protecting each of them. but the chinese people were very serious about nazi
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Ollie Garchy said:
To your 111111:::
Yeah, china is not suitable for democracy..
We are also a country without democratic tradition.but we did well in the past ,do you think it is necessary for us to practice democracy.of cause it is not necessary.
We also did not experienced a so called "Enlightenment". do you think it is our fault that we are not the same as you and your culture? obveriouly self-centered words. It is not our fault that we are not the same as you ,but it is truly your fault the time you want to make us the same as you . we have our own way,you have no right to intervene the affairs of others. Or ,are you claiming that we are barbarines?????you should care about the rulls of thie forum. You should know that racial words are not allowed here. And the racist are not welcomed here.yeah we did not experienced a so called “Enlightenment”,but we are still living ok. It is not our fault that we did not experienced that.
But you said that :we
. i think you are wrong .it is true that we did not not experienced them ,but I think we know them although we can not know about them thoroughly.
You said that china is frightening.i have no comments of this.because it is only your subjective judgement.we can not know them deeply.i think you know that subjectice things are not believable and not convictive.you may think that china is frightening,but others maybe think that china is so weak a country.so subjective judgement conlusions may be not ok.
You said that:”
I think your purpose of this word is that you want to worse the realitionships of sino—usa and sino-europe.i want to ask you :: are you a gentleman? Do you love peace?do you have your religion?do you know that the MIGHTY told us all the people should treat others friendly?do you know this ?then let us assume that what you said is right,let we assume that we do showed contempt for North America and Europe,but do you think you are righteous the time you said that? What you are concerning is the interest of yours . Hitler was showed contempt ,I think that Hitler may also said that “THAT BAD GUYS ,AND THAT BAD GUYS”. Let we assume your words are right, then I think it will be ok for you to give out THE FACT…….subjective words are not welcome and not convictive but mere shows you’re your prejudice . so please out first-habd materials.
You said that :
This is mere a sentense without any sense.senseless words.
I need the fact…fact….fact..i need proof to prove you subjective judgement.in fact these words of yours are denigrating the repution of china.and you are making a crime yourself by your slander.
All of your words are full of subjective judgements without giving out the facts. All are not believable and not convictive. You also slander others without giving out your proof.
Bad habit……….
To your 222222:::::
Yeah ,china is not China is not Nazi-Germany.
But not far more worse…………..
You said that
I need you proof to prove your subjective judgement. In fact your are making a crime by your slander.
You mentioned the wars of us with vietnem and india,but you should know that we are not the only country doing wars. In fact usa do wars more often then us, so why do you neglected them? Why do you critisise the usa government? Do you obverse the world with a coloured glass and with prejudice?
You said that we annexed the Tibet country . please give out your proof of Tibet is a country in the older days. And give out proof that Tibet had none business with the old china. Still judgement without solid base.
As the matters of Taiwan ,it is mere the unite of the whole country. Personally I do not like wars ,especially the wars between our compatriot. Let we assume that you are really from germany ,what do you think if west-germany exists and east-germany exists? A country should be united as a whole ,work as a whole ,fight as a whole. Taiwan and mainland china are all china. We are the same.
You said that china
I think both usa and eu are still threatening china. Do you know that it is a fact ? do you think you are a justice man while you said this word? What you are really concerning is the interest of yours ,but you do not want to pursue you interest frankly, you just want to pursue your interest with several coats such as:
A china is not a democratic country.
B china is a communist country
C china threatens the world..
You are not gentle man ,you are not the defender of right. All you concerns is your own interest,but you do not have your couragement to admit this.
As the matters about trade. I think it is very normal. Any country engaged in the international trads may met the trade problems. Do you know WTO? Do you know why WTO was found? Do you know the duty of WTO? In fact trade problems happens in every country. So if trade problems happens between china and other countries, it is very normal. Trade problems happens in every country for example between usa and japan.
I admit that we did not did well in the environment protecting. I think we need time to change. I remember that in the 1850s the environment in Europe was not ok too. I remember that they developed economy and science first ,and until the time they have achieved their aims, then they began to protect the environment. We will do better and better ,and we need time.
I guess you should be more active in some chinese forum instead of here, because most chinese like me were not active and always being around to correct your mistake, it clearly shows that you don't know alot things about china considering all these years you spend in china. I got2go, bye
To your 333333:::::
Energy crisis was caused by all the countries especiall by the developed countries, because they have more cars ,more ships ,more factories ,more planes etc. and do you think we do a crime while we want to develop our country ? it is not our fault to beautify our homeland,if we want to develop ,we need energy first. Do you think that you are right while only the west countries using energh and the other parts of the world have no energy?????????? Self-centerd people,self-centered man….
As a country we should defend our country. We should have our arms and the troops. I think you like the-weak-military-china,because you can aggress a weak- military-china at any time. We have our rights to arm ourselves to against the agressors and the thieves. It is not our fault. But it is your fault while you said that ,you have neglected that china is also a country, all china do is just the duty of any others country did.
Are you claiming that the products of china is so cheap?????
It is very ok for your people, because they no more have to bargain with the sellers.
In fact if germany have 1.3 bilion population ,the products of germany can be very cheap too. It is mere economic commonsense.
You said that:
who said that we are fear of foreigners? forengners means what ? what are they ??
i fact i fear of bears.
but we know that others still does that .
in the days before the president of usa elections,the president of the usa always critisize china ,but when he win the election, he will better the realitionships between china and usa.
in fact he know that a better china-usa realitionship can better usa much.
thanks redleg much
Energy crisis was caused by all the countries especiall by the developed countries, because they have more cars ,more ships ,more factories ,more planes etc. and do you think we do a crime while we want to develop our country ? it is not our fault to beautify our homeland,if we want to develop ,we need energy first. Do you think that you are right while only the west countries using energh and the other parts of the world have no energy?????????? Self-centerd people,self-centered man….
As a country we should defend our country. We should have our arms and the troops. I think you like the-weak-military-china,because you can aggress a weak- military-china at any time. We have our rights to arm ourselves to against the agressors and the thieves. It is not our fault. But it is your fault while you said that ,you have neglected that china is also a country, all china do is just the duty of any others country did.
I do not know the meaning of this sentence. My English skills are limited.
Are you claiming that the products of china is so cheap?????
It is very ok for your people, because they no more have to bargain with the sellers.
In fact if germany have 1.3 bilion population ,the products of germany can be very cheap too. It is mere economic commonsense.
You said that:
Some countries are built on colonize,killing the people living in their hometown,conguering the other countries,robbing the treasures of others.
the time i read these words i laughed.bulldogg said:
who said that we are fear of foreigners? forengners means what ? what are they ??
i fact i fear of bears.
i agree this in a sense.bulldogg said:
but we know that others still does that .
in the days before the president of usa elections,the president of the usa always critisize china ,but when he win the election, he will better the realitionships between china and usa.
in fact he know that a better china-usa realitionship can better usa much.
thanks redleg much
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