Its unbelievable, but hilter was one lucky son of a *****.

Correct if im wrong, but "In WW1 a US soldier had Hilter in his crosshairs, but didnt shoot him because Hilter was only a private then."

Well i gues that that guy killed milions of people

Com'on guys! There's no doubt that in many ways Hitler was a very smart guy. You just don't gain control of the most important country in Europe and lead it to almost total European domination if you don't have some kind of savvy upstairs.

Hitler had *severe* psychological faults and was a very sick and delusional man (especially in the last year of the war) but was he stupid? Not a chance.

And he wasn't all that bad a strategist. Many of his ideas were supported by the top military minds of the time. He 'got' what Blitzkrieg could do and what combined arms could do and that is more than you can say for respected Generals like Von Rundstedt and Von Kluge. He listened to Guderian and allowed him to develop and build up the German Panzer arm. That showed intelligence and foresight on his part.

Hitler's problems were that his own *severe* psychological faults got in the way of any good judgement he had. Sometimes he was right but often he was wrong and he and Germany paid the ultimate price for it.

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

You just don't gain control of the most important country in Europe

I object! There's no reason to call Germany "the most important country in Europe" I'm not making any claims to which country would earn that title, but I don't think we should use that phrase to describe Germany.

And he wasn't all that bad a strategist. Many of his ideas were supported by the top military minds of the time. He 'got' what Blitzkrieg could do and what combined arms could do and that is more than you can say for respected Generals like Von Rundstedt and Von Kluge

Well, thats one way to look at it....But I think that he was a radical man and therefor leaned towards the new and radical military minds in germany...He was prone on radical solutions, and towards he end of the war supported some of the most redicules development plans in weaonery history.

As to his strategic thinking, he invaded russia for pits sake, thats the worst blunder you can make.

You have a point 1217 however, maybe we had better get doppleganger to clarify by what he meant as important. maybe he ment strategic location wise? population wise? ect ect...

In reality...the whole of europe was sunk pretty down with an economic depression and all..just like the USA was during the 30s. I think France and Germany were the first to come out of that economic disaster.

anyhow lets see how he meant it.

Originally Posted by IrishWizard

I have heard that story to darkmb101. But the one that has stuck with me while reading some books about Hitler was in an assault he was in during WWI he tripped and fell onto the ground and as he fell a bullet passed through his top, right shoulder uniform and hit the man behind him. He then stood up and ran about 10 feet and 2 seconds later a shell hit exactly where he had been. Face it guys, he was a LUCKY man. He survived a mustard gas attack also. Man hes a lucky bastard! He must of had a few 4-leaf clovers :P

the swastika looks kind of like four leaf clover

Originally Posted by sherman105

Well, thats one way to look at it....But I think that he was a radical man and therefor leaned towards the new and radical military minds in germany...He was prone on radical solutions, and towards he end of the war supported some of the most redicules development plans in weaonery history.

As to his strategic thinking, he invaded russia for pits sake, thats the worst blunder you can make.

Yup, a blunder caused by the excesses of his own flawed personality and his intense hatred of the Slavic peoples. I never said he was a master strategist now, just that he wasn't as dumb as some of you seem to want to believe.

And anyway, 1941 *was* the best time to invade the Soviet Union. German military planners had estimated that Germany's potential enemies would gradually began to catch up in hardware and in operational capability, especially in the air, by 1943 onwards. The Red Army was still weak after the 1930 Stalinist purges of senior commanders and the Wehrmacht was at the peak of it's powers.

You can say that Operation Barbarossa was a huge, perhaps reckless, gamble by Hitler, but it began very well and had it not been for Hitler's own meddling in the final objectives, the unusually heavy rainfall that turned the steppes into seas of mud and the coldest winter for 140 years, Germany might have succeeded even in 1941. It's easy to say with hindsight that such an action was folly. Hindsight can make anyone a great strategist. :P

BTW to answer what I meant by Germany being the most important country in Europe at that time. That is not to say other countries weren't important (I am British after all). But being at the centre of Europe, it's population size and industrial and engineering might, all make it the most important country in Europe in terms of its influence on it's neighbours and the wider world at large.

Let's not get all nationalistic here. Some countries are clearly more important than others in terms of the influence they have on others. That's a fact of life.

Posted: Thu May 27, 2004 21:21 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

IrishWizard wrote:
I have heard that story to darkmb101. But the one that has stuck with me while reading some books about Hitler was in an assault he was in during WWI he tripped and fell onto the ground and as he fell a bullet passed through his top, right shoulder uniform and hit the man behind him. He then stood up and ran about 10 feet and 2 seconds later a shell hit exactly where he had been. Face it guys, he was a LUCKY man. He survived a mustard gas attack also. Man hes a lucky bastard! He must of had a few 4-leaf clovers
the swastika looks kind of like four leaf clover

the thing is that swastika was a peace sign before hitler took it for insignia

Originally Posted by IrishWizard

I have heard that story to darkmb101. But the one that has stuck with me while reading some books about Hitler was in an assault he was in during WWI he tripped and fell onto the ground and as he fell a bullet passed through his top, right shoulder uniform and hit the man behind him. He then stood up and ran about 10 feet and 2 seconds later a shell hit exactly where he had been. Face it guys, he was a LUCKY man. He survived a mustard gas attack also. Man hes a lucky bastard! He must of had a few 4-leaf clovers :P

If Hitler was the lucky one, then you could argue that there probably were more people that could have done what he did in the 1930s an 40s, but didn't because they didn't survive wwI.
Don't forget that being a "war hero" did help Hitler to gain respect and power among his followers an his military personnel. Soldiers always have more respect for political leaders that have been in the military
themselves.

Originally Posted by Mark Conley

In reality...the whole of europe was sunk pretty down with an economic depression and all..just like the USA was during the 30s. I think France and Germany were the first to come out of that economic disaster.

At first it looked like Germany was doing better, but that was mainly because Hitler was printing new money on a 24/7 bases. The inflation skyrocketed, which Hitler blamed on the Jews, and than the only thing he could do was to go to war. He had the German population working again, but the money wasn't worth .

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

BTW to answer what I meant by Germany being the most important country in Europe at that time. That is not to say other countries weren't important (I am British after all). But being at the centre of Europe, it's population size and industrial and engineering might, all make it the most important country in Europe in terms of its influence on it's neighbours and the wider world at large.

I still don't agree (I'm a stubborn man, if I want to be ) The central position of Germany has it's bad sides too. World economy wise, they where in a bad position back then. The best way to ship cargo was by boat. (It still is for large amounts.) Now France, Belgium and the Netherlands all had the upper hand when it came to harbours. And don't forget, back then these countries still had their colonies, so they weren't as small as they appear. And Germany still was suffering under sanctions placed upon them after losing the first WW. No, Germany wasn't at all the important country you say it was.

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

Let's not get all nationalistic here. Some countries are clearly more important than others in terms of the influence they have on others. That's a fact of life.

Granted, but I wasn't being nationalistic, I just didn't agree with you.. :P