Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk

Maybe we can compare it with Czechoslovakia, but the comparison is pretty week. There was a Czech unit resisting the Germans, but the ethnic Ukrainians will defend their country. What they can achieve is creating a threshold to make any military intervention by the Russians expensive. I don't think we will see any military action before and during the Olympic Games.


I would be more worried if I were in any of the Baltic states. The West could implement the economic sanctions now.

I think it is time we called Putin's hand and moved Western troops into Ukraine, see how his nation will react to demands that he stand down his forces or the West will establish a permanent presence there.

The reality is that the West's procrastinating is emboldening both Russia and China and it is time we put up or shut up.

I think it is better to arm the Ukrainians instead. They received AT-missiles, they are quite easy to operate. It is late to provide the Ukrainians with advanced air defense and artillery systems when it takes longer to train them to operate such systems.

I think the Ukrainians got artillery radar awhile back, but I am not sure.

The Russians have deployed amphibian assault ships to the Black Sea or they are on the way to the Black Sea. It can be good to give the Ukrainians anti-ship missiles. The Hellfire missile can be used as anti-ship missiles.

I assume the Ukrainians get and provide with intelligence as well.

I don't think economic sanctions will deter Putin, Russia will get closer to China and the Chinese might do something when they get Russian support.

Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk

I don't think economic sanctions will deter Putin, Russia will get closer to China and the Chinese might do something when they get Russian support.

Economic sanctions are a waste of time, the only solution to this issue that wont see Putin win is troops on the ground or more immediately aircraft in the air.

I firm and unflinching response from the West would quieten both Russian and China's military ambition, at the moment they are both banking on carrying out small actions that get them a stern talking to from the West but nothing else, I think we have reached a point where a line in the sand needs to be drawn and maybe Ukraine it where it should be drawn.

I kind of agree with you. This land grabbing needs to stop and Ukraine might be the place for it, but I think it is the Ukrainians fight, not ours.

In Asia, I wonder how China would react if the US and its allies recognized Taiwan as an independent and sovereign country

Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk

I kind of agree with you. This land grabbing needs to stop and Ukraine might be the place for it, but I think it is the Ukrainians fight, not ours.

In Asia, I wonder how China would react if the US and its allies recognized Taiwan as an independent and sovereign country

Personally I think Taiwan should be recognized, it is time to stop pandering to these emotionally fragile countries as the more we placate them the more fragile and demanding they seem to become.

Let's be honest Putin is only stirring up trouble to strengthen his position at home as Russia seems to have a hardon for strongmen.

I read the support for Putin in Russia was pretty low because of COVID. What can better than portraying the outside world as a threat and getting the people to rally around the flag.

Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk

I read the support for Putin in Russia was pretty low because of COVID. What can better than portraying the outside world as a threat and getting the people to rally around the flag.

True but that wanes pretty quickly once the body bags start coming home and/or you have to sign an agreement accepting the oppositions borders including the bit in the east you are trying to steal and NATO is moving in next door.
Putin is very close to painting himself into a corner and has almost reached a point where no matter what he does NATO will be the winner (Ukraine might not be but NATO certainly will).

Originally Posted by MontyB

True but that wanes pretty quickly once the body bags start coming home and/or you have to sign an agreement accepting the oppositions borders including the bit in the east you are trying to steal and NATO is moving in next door.
Putin is very close to painting himself into a corner and has almost reached a point where no matter what he does NATO will be the winner (Ukraine might not be but NATO certainly will).

I think Putin underestimated the West's reaction, the West didn't do much when Russia captured Crimean. But now they react and providing the Ukrainians with military hardware so I agree, Putin has painted himself into a corner.

Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk

I think Putin underestimated the West's reaction, the West didn't do much when Russia captured Crimean. But now they react and providing the Ukrainians with military hardware so I agree, Putin has painted himself into a corner.

Putin has always been a scumbag in my opinion, for 16 years he was in the KGB, carrying on from the Soviet era he sends Soviet ""Bear"" aircraft into British airspace, when I was in the RAF we had art least one a week test our response time to intercept.

Russians have been agent provocateurs for years.

Originally Posted by MontyB

Economic sanctions are a waste of time, the only solution to this issue that wont see Putin win is troops on the ground or more immediately aircraft in the air.

I firm and unflinching response from the West would quieten both Russian and China's military ambition, at the moment they are both banking on carrying out small actions that get them a stern talking to from the West but nothing else, I think we have reached a point where a line in the sand needs to be drawn and maybe Ukraine it where it should be drawn.

Ukraine is a neutral,corrupt,underdeveloped country that is not essential for our survive .
If Putin want ,let get him have it .
But, I doubt that he would be that stupid to try to conquer and occupy Ukraine with a miserable 100000 men.
To conquer Ukraine,he would need more than 500000 men,which he has not .
To occupy Ukraine for the next decades,he would need more than 500000 men,for several decades ,which he has not .
And,where would he get the resources and money to conquer and occupy Ukraine ? There is only one solution : raising taxes and thus losing votes .
Besides : WHY would he invade Ukraine? He had the opportunity to do it 20 years ago and he didn't do it . Why should he do it now ?
There is no benefit for him ,only a big risk .