Discussions about improving the forum

A Can of Man

A Can of Man

Je suis aware
Some of us have talked about making the forum better and so I think it's appropriate we have a thread dedicated to identifying grieviances, problems etc. to get a better picture of what's going on. Once we've identified what these issues are then we can move onto the next stage where we can come up with ways to fix them.

Please note that this is simply a draft and all elements of this should be examined carefully before being agreed upon.

Strategic level:
The symptoms of the problems: A lot of regulars have left and haven't really come back. When some have come back, they only did so for a brief amount of time before leaving yet again and it isn't always about their busy schedule. New members don't always stay, especially those whose English is their 2nd language.

Goal: To retain members and boost meaningful contribution. Free flowing threads and discussions would be a key objective to be met in dealing with this goal.

Tactical level:
What we should do first: identify the major grieviances that members have that have made them consider leaving or have made others to leave (and told members about it before they left).

It's a start.
 
Making an account to advertise the forum via youtube always works.

Maybe add some docco's [Documentaries] about military-related stuff.
 
I've actually thought of that. It's worth a shot though I'm not sure how successful it will be. Just how many people actually follow the links on youtube videos?
But like I said, it's more about retention...

Some issues that have been raised (not necessarily by me):
- Moderators don't take active part in threads enough.
- Threads are too easily closed.
- It's not clear whether the mods are being referees or unit commanders.
- The focus of the board... is it really being a military forum?
- Civilians who piss off military personnel (apparently intentionally).
- Trolling that is forgiven due to the person's political stance (Phoenix lasted a LONG time, probably for being conservative because I can't imagine any leftist with his sort of trolling lasting anywhere near 2 years)
- The fact that moderators never change regardless of commitment or lack thereof (for whatever reason).
- The moderator's political stance that interferes too much with their decision making.
- Left, right or center? Are we neutral or does a certain political stance come first? We should make it clear and stick to it.
 
Last edited:
My suggestions

Okay, I do have some suggestions on how this forum might be more welcoming to newcomers/or improved. They are only suggestions and not a complaint against anyone, and they are from someone who is new(ish) on here (me), and my point of view on what I think could be done, of what I have seen so far...

Firstly, in some instances, yes, I think there are just too many rules on here, and it can make people feel uncomfortable about posting. (Especially newcomers).

Things like double posting should be allowed, (I recently got in trouble for this, I didn't even know what it meant, to be honest).

I have no problem with displaying my age in my profile, but some people may feel uncomfortable having to do this. Posters should have more say in what private info. they want displayed.

Yesterday, (and I'm not even sure how I got to that area), but I went to a place where I could see who was on, (which is fine), but also what they were doing at that particular time, i.e. what thread they were viewing. I was surprised, I don't think that it is necessary and can be off putting, we have to have some privacy on here!

Also, I've noticed that I can see 'the last ten posters' that visited my profile page. What is the point in that? Not necessary I think.

Although, I don't like to see cussing/swearing, an occasional one here and there should be allowed, without the person getting into trouble. After all, we all live in the real world. (I hope :)).

We have to take into consideration that many people who are on here, do not have English as their first language, and some points will not be understood, at least straight away. They should be given a chance before getting into trouble or at least have it explained to them (maybe via Pm) by a moderator.

I'm sure I don't even understand or am aware of all the rules that need to be followed here. Although I understand that this is a military forum and there are (perhaps) more rules and regulations then there would be on other forums, some do seem a little severe.

I do have to say, that I'm glad that over the top insults and rudeness is not allowed. No one wants to feel bad for just having an opinion, or just being here. But I think some of the rules could be relaxed somewhat.
 
I want to be more active in the forums, and i have a little knowledge about military stuff. But I am afraid to post because i feel that the Men and Woman who serve/served wil not like it that a civilian gives his opions on military matters.
If this is not the case, then i would be more then happy to comment on the post instead of just reading them.

This leads me to another question, is the because of the civvies that some military members dont want to post anymore? Do you guys feel like we dont belong here? and mess everything up?Someday i hope to enlist, but for now civvie it is.
 
So additional grieviances would be

- Want of more privacy.
- Civilians unsure of what is appropriate and what is not while trying to be respectful.
 
Mikefrombelgium said:
I want to be more active in the forums, and i have a little knowledge about military stuff. But I am afraid to post because i feel that the Men and Woman who serve/served wil not like it that a civilian gives his opions on military matters.
If this is not the case, then i would be more then happy to comment on the post instead of just reading them.

This leads me to another question, is the because of the civvies that some military members dont want to post anymore? Do you guys feel like we dont belong here? and mess everything up?Someday i hope to enlist, but for now civvie it is.
Click to expand...
Mike .........
There is NOTHING wrong with a civilian participating on this military forum ... all we ever ask is a little respect. Some of us have been at the point of the sword and some of our friends have given the last full measure. Because of that, some of us believe that gives us a right to DEMAND respect.

For info ... I for one, do not suffer fools or idiots, that spout off with forceful opinions about things they know nothing about ... UNDERSTAND ... that doesn't mean that a civilian should NOT have an opinion - all it means is a respectful post will go a long ways towards a person's meaningful participation in discussions about military matters with military and ex-military forum members.

These are the people that active military, ex-military members and I welcome.

As far as why there appears to be less participation by some of the oldtimers (military and ex-military) and others, it has to do with the extremely restrictive moderation that is the norm today. It wasn't like that when I joined the forum back in 2005. You see very few heated discussions any more because of that

... and ...

because of that .....
​

some of us believe the forum is NOT better today.​
 
For info ... I for one, do not suffer fools or idiots, that spout off with forceful opinions about things they know nothing about

Are you referring to my last post on here? If I didn't have such a thick skin, I would go and never come back. Is it, perhaps, angry posts like yours that put off newcomers, civilian or not?

For your information, I am a civilian, never been in the military, but I have had family members who were, and who died in various wars and I have friends who are in Afghanistan even now. I can understand that you are upset about what you have seen and been thorough Chief Bones, but no need to take it out on others.

I don't think anyone comes on here to disrespect others. We all have opinions on different topics. Yes, some are more knowledgeable then others, but we all have an interest in what is happening in our world today, and that is the reason we are here. Just because we are civilians doesn't mean we should close our minds to what happens around us, after all, in one way or another, it affects us all.
 
Jilly said:
For info ... I for one, do not suffer fools or idiots, that spout off with forceful opinions about things they know nothing about

Are you referring to my last post on here? If I didn't have such a thick skin, I would go and never come back. Is it, perhaps, angry posts like yours that put off newcomers, civilian or not? ......................
Click to expand...

DID I REFERENCE YOUR NAME IN MY LAST POST?????

I think it was directed to Mike ..... and just for info, I didn't have anybody particular in mind - my comment was a general comment.

DO YOU HAVE A GUILTY CONSCIENCE OR SOMETHING JILLY????
 
@ Chief Bones: this last remark was unnecessary, and yelling (capitals and fat) even more.

Personally - like Jilly - I have a problem with the double post rule (got an infringement, made my case to mods, but it was rejected).

Still, while complying now that I understand the rule (no posting after yourself), I find it ridiculous that I cannot post another song in the evening at 2200 when I posted one at 0600 in the morning, just because nobbody else posted one inbetween (in the music thread, example: http://www.military-quotes.com/forum/537031-post.html : As you can see I *do* have to make an edit which sincerely disrupts both posts intention and context just because of the fear to get banned).

For me this kind of rules (and I run forums myself: http://www.warandtactics.com/smf/index.php & http://www.airdisaster.info/forums/index.php as TechAdmin) disrupt normal communication. I can see that people should be forced to add 2nd thoughts to a previous post as edit, but I do not see the sense in not allowing two different posts in one thread just because nobody answered.

You run into this double post rule infringement easily if you aswer in tabs (Firefox) because in the moment of posting you don´t even realize you are in the same thread - as you answered in another tab to another post -, does this really need to be stigmatized? Are we so thread centered that we do not see that threads divide into posts of different angles? Do all these angles - as response to different authors - need to be solved in one single post?

For me, it is an almost unacceptable effort to research whole threads just to avoid double posting in this manner (inadvertantly), I read and comment more than 100 forums a day and I feel heavily restricted by that rule as it costs me my valuable time (which I do not have). Guess which forums I frequent more often....?

FWIW,

Rattler
 
Last edited:
Chief Bones said:
DO YOU HAVE A GUILTY CONSCIENCE OR SOMETHING JILLY????
Click to expand...


Not at all.

I wasn't sure who you were talking to, that's all. In a way, my post made it's point, no matter who you were referring to.

I agree with Rattler, the double posting rule should definitely go. I could understand if someone was deliberately making four, five + posts in one go, that would be too much, but I don't see how a double post is wrong. Sometimes, I like to make 2 posts, for two different posters, it's just clearer that way.
 
Last edited:
Actually, I like the double post rule. You should multi-quote unless you're bumping.

Other than that I really do like a lot of the suggestions that have been made here. In an elaboration on the military-civilian relationship, I do just want to say that I've felt that as a civilian I've been given a different treatment, as if I don't know what I'm talking about, just because I haven't served in the military. Just because I haven't been overseas doesn't mean I'm not intelligent.

On a side note, I think that all the argument going on here is similar to what's happening in the US right now. Both sides obviously enjoy being here (why would we come here otherwise?) but they have such vastly different viewpoints they're getting on each other's nerves.

On a second completely unrelated note, remember how we were all bored at how peaceful the Political forum was in the month or so after the end of the infamous P80 incident? :D
 
I've kept my gob shut all through this debacle, however,... I do have one thing that sometimes worries me.

It is my perception, that there are some moderators (and others) here who seem to have lost sight of the fact that this Forum is, in name anyway, an "International" Forum. Every now and then I see mods opinions and decisions based heavily on American values. Now, that may be quite OK in America, but there is a great big world outside of the US and US interests, and I feel that it would be advantageous for all to have a few moderators with different views of the world.

Yes, I am aware that we do have moderators from Canada and Israel, and overall, I feel that all the moderators do a good job, but it does seen somewhat "US centric"

My personal desire is, that should a current moderator leave for any reason, that consideration be given to perhaps a European replacement, if a suitable member is available and willing to devote the time necessary to do this somewhat thankless job.

This is not a concern, but perhaps a "suggestion" I sometimes think that many heated debates could be hosed down by moderators using a wider variety of infringements and punishments. Here it seem to be similar to what i got when growing up, you get several warnings,... then,... WHACK! you are out for a week or ten days.

I realise that it may increase the workload for moderators, but I think it may be more appropriate for a wider sliding scale of clearly designated punishments. For example"

A Caution (It's getting out of hand, turn it down)
A Warning (One more comment like that and you'll cop a suspension)
Suspension One Day, Two Day, Three... etc., through to Permanent. (Yeah, I know one day, sounds airy fairy,... but it does defuse the issue for a day in which time a debate can move on. I realise that this is probably already an option, but I rarely see it used. At the moment it seems to be, a couple of Warnings, and Bang!,... you are suspended for 10 days or so.

The lesser suspensions could be used merely to pull protagonists apart for a day or two to cool off, without recording a "Black mark" against either.

That's just my opinion for what it's worth.

Thank you.
 
Last edited:
Ok so lets see what we have so far:

- Moderators don't take active part in threads enough.
- Threads are too easily closed.
- It's not clear whether the mods are being referees or unit commanders.
- The focus of the board... is it really being a military forum?
- Civilians who piss off military personnel (apparently intentionally).
- Trolling that is forgiven due to the person's political stance (Phoenix lasted a LONG time, probably for being conservative because I can't imagine any leftist with his sort of trolling lasting anywhere near 2 years)
- The fact that moderators never change regardless of commitment or lack thereof (for whatever reason).
- The moderator's political stance that interferes too much with their decision making.
- Left, right or center? Are we neutral or does a certain political stance come first? We should make it clear and stick to it
- Want of more privacy.
- Civilians unsure of what is appropriate and what is not while trying to be respectful.
New ones:
- Not international enough, especially in terms of choice of moderators.
- Double posts are a neusance.
- The suspensions and temporary bans are far too sudden and far too heavy.

Guys let's try to keep arguing amongst each other on this thread down to a minimum. I've intentionally left out the names of the people who made a lot of these suggestions for a reason. Let's not get all defensive about stuff.
 
rattler said:
@ Chief Bones: this last remark was unnecessary, and yelling (capitals and fat) even more.
FWIW,

Rattler
Click to expand...

Rattler .....
As far as my remarks ... since when were you selected the arbiter of this thread????? To start with, I did NOTHING to violate the forum rules and your comment/opinion were NOT worth your effort to post them .. and .. secondly .. I post as I like.

I don't remember seeing your identity being labeled as a forum mod - DID I MISS SOMETHING???

Maybe you didn't like my capital or large block letters ... BUT ... they made my point didn't they??????? We have had this argument before and as was pointed out, it IS legal to use the print functions.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top